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Is it just the primers?

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Is it just the primers?

Old 12-18-2014, 05:24 AM
Fork Horn
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Default Is it just the primers?

For starters, shame on me for going off half cocked. I have not shot my M/L (Lyman Trade Rifle) regularly for 5 years.

Last year, I decided to take it on a hunting trip as a second rifle. As I am packing, I open up a tin of CC #11 Magnum caps and there are 5 in there, the last five from a box of 1000 (lasted me 19 years).

I reach back in the safe and find another tin. It looks different. Says CC #11. I fill up the inline capper and think no more about it. At camp, I shot a couple of shots checking my sights. The trip ends, I clean my gun, put things away.

This year, I take my M/L to deer camp and this time, every time I try to shoot, I get a nice pop, and no boom.

If course, I clean the gun, check the cleanout screw, check nipple, do everything I think I think is necessary. After a couple of days of this, my capper is empty, and I reach into my possibles bag and pull out that tin of CC #11 caps, and it dawns on me, maybe I am staring at the problem.

What say you?
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:41 AM
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If they are standard #11 CCI caps, I will say... I don't like them. Under powered in my opinion. But unless the caps are bad, I would not suspect them. I would go and purchase a brand new tin of Magnum #11 CCI caps and try them. See if that solves the problem. If it does, then yes, the caps are bad. But I would clean the rifle again, paying special attention to the drum and the nipple. Might even want to change out the nipple for a new one.
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:44 AM
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Go internet shopping for a Red-Hot nipple (or similar) and superior RWS Dynamit Nobel 1075 plus caps.

Your problems should end right there. I would suggest the musket caps/nipples option. But my luck with musket were not good. The musket caps tend to fall off my nipple when scouting thru the woods, with the sidehammer on half-cock.

One last mention on troubleshooting..... (happened to my buddy recently, creating a misfire)

DO NOT swab the dirty bore with a dry patch. Too much burnt residue will fall in the bottom of the breech, possibly creating a partial or full blockage of the nipple area, negating firing of your new powder.

Last edited by Triple Se7en; 12-18-2014 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 12-18-2014, 07:48 AM
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Idaho
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What powder are you using? I use CCI #11's and haven't had any issues (using goex), except for when I did what was just mentioned...swabbed between shots and pushed crud into the flame channel. I've never tried pyrodex or 777, but have heard that the magnum caps are best for igniting them (except 209's of course, illegal to hunt with in Idaho), or musket caps like mentioned. I would think if the caps are going off then they aren't the problem. Trying a tin of magnum #11's won't necessary show that the non mags are to fault, as they are hotter. A new tin of non mags would tell you though. When you said you shot it at camp two years ago, did you use the rest of the mags and then this year it was the non mags? The caps do seem to be the common denominator if your using the same powder and it hasn't gotten any moisture to it, but if you're using pyrodex or 777 then I'd bet it has to have the hotter mag caps to ignite it reliably.
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:29 AM
Fork Horn
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I am using GOEX FF.

2 years ago I added the 5 to the one or two that was in the capper, followed by the #11s.

Some range time would have likely uncovered any problem, but as I stated, I have neglected this rifle, mainly because the new range I shoot at (100 yd underground indoor) will allow subs but no black powder. Go figure?

Found some magnum #11 and will head to the farm to hunt, see what happens and report back.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:26 PM
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Personally before I got to carried away with changing nipple or even caps, I would try a couple of other things first. Since you have cleaned and you have removed the cleanout screw and checked that out - My suggestion would be to pull the nipple out and even the clean out screw. Pour 10-20 grains of GOEX down the bore tilt the rifle to favor the powder getting out to the nipple area. Tap the side of the rifle and verify powder is coming out of the nipple and clean out areas.

If you are getting power to the those two spots - pour the powder back out push air through the breech plug with the bore facing down. Re-install the nipple and the clean-out screw. Take the rifle out in the garage or a safe area. Place a cap on the nipple and with the muzzle and inch or so off the floor - shoot the cap. The pressure of the cap going off should be seen on the floor especially if you have some dust/sawdust right under the muzzle. Also you could do the same thing at night or in the dark and you should see sparks out the muzzle.

If it does the above it really should ignite the powder, especially real BP, if it doesn't better look for some new powder.
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:29 PM
Fork Horn
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Default Magnum Primers For the Win!

Sabotloader. I worked on the channel with denuded Qtip until it came out clean. I tried blowing a lubed patch off of the muzzle using the #11 caps (no powder, just a cap). It flew up a couple inches.

I went to Sycamore Island (New Albany, IN) and bought 1 tin of CCI Magnum #11s. At the range (Knob Creek, Westpoint, KY), I fired 8 consecutive shots, 1 fouler, and 7 on target at 50 yards (Hornady Great Plains over 100 grains Goex FF with a Magnum #11 primer). There were no misfires.

I will return to Sycamore Island (the store that had the Magnum #11s) and buy the rest they had (4-5 tins).

Thanks for all the input.
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Old 12-19-2014, 06:24 AM
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: upstate NY
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While you are at the gun shop pick up a 35cal wire brush. I've found that after a long storage oil and/or debris gets down in the patent breech from sitting upright and will resist a normal cleaning. After several shots it seems to clear itself and work fine until stored again.
Use a strong solvent (brake clean or carb cleaner) and the wire brush,then wrap patches around brush and wipe until you get a good white patch.
Even on guns that where perfectly clean when stored since I learned this I usually get some gunk out when I go to use again.
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