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chaded 12-05-2014 08:01 AM

Barnes Performance (Graphic)
 
I only got to hunt the first three days of our gun season here and it was a rough one. I ended up getting one right before I left on the third day. So I figured I would share some real world performance results from the Barnes bullet on a deer.

Load:
Barnes 250 grain TEZ
110 grains BH209
W209 Primer

Shot was at 50 yards in the neck on a broadside deer.

Entry



Exit (Yes that is the blue tip from the bullet)


cayugad 12-05-2014 08:03 AM

That one never took a step! Congratulations on harvesting a deer. Barnes did a good job.

johnnyo 12-05-2014 08:08 AM

:woot:Nice! Apparently you prefer not to track!

WV Hunter 12-05-2014 08:13 AM

Looking good! Them neck shots are most of the time DRT. Funny the blue tip stuck in there.

chaded 12-05-2014 08:18 AM

It was dead instantly. I was sitting at the top of a ridge that drops down into a ravine. It came from the top of the ridge and was on a steady pace to get down into the ravine and I shot it just before it went into it. When I fired I saw it rolling through my scope and I went to the top of the ravine and he was laying at the bottom of it.

BarnesAddict 12-05-2014 09:16 AM

THAT is why Barnes is my favorite bullet. It'll do the same thing at 200yds and not fail.

Congrats. :fighting0007:

HatchieLuvr 12-05-2014 09:55 AM

Just goes to show you how much DAMAGE big ol, slow moving, milk buckets can do! I've been a Barnes disciple for over 2 decades and even when I was shooting 30cal 130grn X-bullets at nearly 4k fps in my Lazz Warbird, I never did anykind of damage like that! (But I have found shoulder & rib frags in the rear quarters from a broadside, shoulder hit!) I've had 300grn Barnes mloaders in my Savage smokeless for over a decade now and they just perform miracles! :love:

Omega45 12-05-2014 11:00 AM

Nice!!!

I thought you were using PRB's this year. :lolabove:

cayugad 12-05-2014 11:06 AM

I personally like Barnes so don't get this question the wrong way. But why do some of you like the Barnes TEZ over the Barnes MZ-Expander? I have had amazing accuracy with the MZ-Expander. So other then the tip, what's the advantage to of the TEZ? I think I shot them once in .45 caliber.

The tighest three shot group I ever pulled off was with two Pyrodex RS pellets and the 250 grain MZ-expander. I did swab between shots. Do they also perform as well as the TEZ on game? I have hunted with the MZ but the deer never gave me a chance to "do field research" you might say.

TNHagies 12-05-2014 12:32 PM

The TEZ in 250g is becoming one of my favorite bullets. They are extremely accurate and perform great (as you clearly demonstrated)

To answer your question cayugad, I haven't really seen a big difference in performance on game between the Expander and the TEZ. I do give the slight edge on accuracy to the TEZ though. I turned one of my buddies onto the Expanders a couple years ago and he swears he'll never use any other bullet.

HatchieLuvr 12-05-2014 01:16 PM

Cayu I've used the Barnes xpanders out of my Savage for years as well. I think it's more marketing than anything. Some guys just think the same that applies to their 3Kfps centerfires must apply to their 2Kfps "lugnut chucker" smokepoles. Performance wise ON the animal, no there is no difference! The "slicker" shape of the tipped, lightweight (250 is light in a 45cal pill) does "in theory" yield better ballistics but many would be shocked what simply switching to 300+ grns would do for them. The retained velocity overcomes their lack of initial muzzle velocity. Inside of 250yds I'd MUCH rather have my 300Xpander than ANY of the 250s. I'm NOT shooting my front stuffer over 250yds to begin with so for me I'll forgo the plastic tips and instead prefer to hit them with a big old hole that only gets BIGGER!

WV Hunter 12-05-2014 02:09 PM

I'm planning on testing out the 195's in my .45 elite soon. Where is the best place to buy them?

chaded 12-05-2014 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by HatchieLuvr (Post 4173621)
Cayu I've used the Barnes xpanders out of my Savage for years as well. I think it's more marketing than anything. Some guys just think the same that applies to their 3Kfps centerfires must apply to their 2Kfps "lugnut chucker" smokepoles. Performance wise ON the animal, no there is no difference! The "slicker" shape of the tipped, lightweight (250 is light in a 45cal pill) does "in theory" yield better ballistics but many would be shocked what simply switching to 300+ grns would do for them. The retained velocity overcomes their lack of initial muzzle velocity. Inside of 250yds I'd MUCH rather have my 300Xpander than ANY of the 250s. I'm NOT shooting my front stuffer over 250yds to begin with so for me I'll forgo the plastic tips and instead prefer to hit them with a big old hole that only gets BIGGER!


These 250 grain plastic tipped barnes shoot and do well for me. Between my brother and I the results that I had on this deer are the norm for these bullets. I have shot 300 grain bullets on deer before and there really hasn't been any difference. I mean I really couldn't imagine there being any more damage done or at least anything significant with the 300 grain expander although I wouldn't hesitate to use them either. These ones shoot very well out of my rifle and obviously perform great so I don't see the need for anything else. Also, as you can see the plastic tip comes out and the bullet is expanding very quickly. The neck of a deer is not very much to travel through but the bullet opened up quite well.

BarnesAddict 12-05-2014 05:21 PM

One of the few recovered Barnes 250gr TMZ bullets. Friend shot a deer in the chest and it stopped just shot of exiting the hide on a rear quarter.


oldsmellhound 12-06-2014 09:30 PM

Wow! That is impressive performance! Congrats on the nice shot and harvest.

cayugad 12-07-2014 07:08 AM

That really is impressive expansion in a bullet. I don't know how it could do better.

rafsob 12-08-2014 06:39 AM

I'm a meat man and this is not what I would want for my freezer!!! Way too much damage for me. I'll stick with my XTP and Parker bullets.

Wondering if too much powder was used with this bullet?? You sure that a HEI (High Explosive Incendiary) bullet wasn't used???

HatchieLuvr 12-08-2014 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by chaded (Post 4173631)
These 250 grain plastic tipped barnes shoot and do well for me. Between my brother and I the results that I had on this deer are the norm for these bullets. I have shot 300 grain bullets on deer before and there really hasn't been any difference. I mean I really couldn't imagine there being any more damage done or at least anything significant with the 300 grain expander although I wouldn't hesitate to use them either. These ones shoot very well out of my rifle and obviously perform great so I don't see the need for anything else. Also, as you can see the plastic tip comes out and the bullet is expanding very quickly. The neck of a deer is not very much to travel through but the bullet opened up quite well.

Oh I agree, the 250 is fine for broadside, sub 150yd shots on most deer. The reason I shoot the 300 is for shots over 150 and ESPECIALLY for assurances of FULL penetration, even when FULL penetration means entering the south end of a northbound 220#er! On whitetails, the 250s will shoot thru about 2+ft of light bone, guts and hide. The 300s will plow easily thru 3ft and in some cases 4ft of bone, hide and guts. I just go prepared for WHATEVER shot they present vs hoping and waiting for the perfect shot. As long as I can reach the vitals from a given shot angle, I can take it regardless of how much "matter" is between or behind those vitals. :wink:

BarnesAddict 12-08-2014 03:36 PM

Have taken quite a few whitetail over 200yds with the TMZ bullet in 250gr. As soon as I can get the 290's to shoot and group, I'll be using those from the new rifle.

Semisane 12-08-2014 03:36 PM

Shooting the south end of a northbound deer is something I just can't make myself do.

Not criticizing you HatchieLuvr, it's just not for me.

rafsob 12-09-2014 05:35 AM


Originally Posted by Semisane (Post 4174070)
Shooting the south end of a northbound deer is something I just can't make myself do.

Not criticizing you HatchieLuvr, it's just not for me.

Same here, Semi. Had a friend do this and was successful, but it just doesn't seem right. Now if this was the only meat available, I would of course.

Gm54-120 12-09-2014 07:25 AM


Originally Posted by Semisane (Post 4174070)
Shooting the south end of a northbound deer is something I just can't make myself do.

Not criticizing you HatchieLuvr, it's just not for me.

Me either. I just cant bring myself to take that shot presentation no matter if its a trophy class deer or not. I hunt for meat and over 90% of my shots are "text book" double lung broadside shots.

Taking that kind of shot i want the most amount of tissue displacement as possible and two holes. Barnes quite often deliver this kind of displacement regardless of the shot angle.

High shoulder shots ruin a huge amount of meat too even with a 185gr copper bullet.



"Text book" shots do not unless you like to eat the heart. :D

Triple Se7en 12-09-2014 07:52 AM

That photo was a result of a 185 gr. XTP?
How much powder there?

I was hunting with a 185 /44 XTP last weekend, using 75 gr. of Schuetzen Black Powder in a CVA Stalker Carbine sidelock.

My results were a little different. I was only hitting a dead tree during lunchtimes... :(

WV Hunter 12-09-2014 09:04 AM

T7, pretty sure that was with a Barnes.


Anyone every capture a smaller Barnes from a deer? (185,195)

Gm54-120 12-09-2014 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by Triple Se7en (Post 4174250)
That photo was a result of a 185 gr. XTP?
How much powder there?

I was hunting with a 185 /44 XTP last weekend, using 75 gr. of Schuetzen Black Powder in a CVA Stalker Carbine sidelock.

My results were a little different. I was only hitting a dead tree during lunchtimes... :(

Nope a Barnes 40-155gr TAC XP with a 30gr lead insert in the hollow point. IIRC 110 or 120gr BH209 in a CVA Accura V1. Distance was over 100 yards at impact

Triple Se7en 12-09-2014 10:28 AM

Quite a hole for a 40/155.
Can you by-chance show us a pic of that bullet after completion of that lead insert?

livbucks 12-10-2014 11:12 AM

That is the projectile to use if you want less meat and no tracking. There is always a tradeoff to any decision.

Muley Hunter 12-10-2014 11:16 AM

Tracking is a hunter skill everybody should have. I would never ruin meat on purpose to avoid tracking.

chaded 12-10-2014 01:49 PM

First, I didn't lose any meat as I don't pick around the little bit of meat found on a smaller deers neck. Second, I have never lost anymore meat than any other bullet I have used by taking shots into the vitals. I don't mind tracking but if I have a neck shot open at a range I am confident I will take it every time. I find this topic of meat loss in regards to this barnes bullet that I used very interesting. It is a copper bullet that holds together and has textbook mushrooming, not sure what else you want. But yet I see mention of a XTP or Parker bullets which are well known of exploding and coming apart. Weird. In fact here is a picture (entry/exit) of a deer I shot last year with a Hornady 300 grain xtp (.430).




HatchieLuvr 12-11-2014 07:16 AM

No offense taken here to the guys who said "TX heartshots" aren't for them! I realize it's a personal choice and many don't. I honestly only became comfortable with it after years of experience (and yes experimentation) with Barnes in both smokepoles and centerfires. I'm in west TN where we've had nearly 2 decades now of "3 does per day, everyday of the season from bow in Sept thru gun which runs into Jan. So I and many of my hunting buddies have had ample "testing opportunities" to make sure what we're saying is factual. To date I've NEVER lost a deer I took a "TX heartshot" on! But I've NEVER taken a "questionable" TX heartshot. (SURE I've lost deer, especially as a youngster when I just "put the crosshairs on hide and let fly" but that's not the arguement here) If I'm not comfortable or something else isn't right in the equation, then the deer will live another day.

In my personal case the farthest centerfire shot I have on record with a TX heartshot and a Barnes is 306yds (lasered) on an average sized doe. I was shooting a 30cal 150grn Lazerhead (Barnes Tripleshock) with a muzzle velocity of just under 3800fps. (Via my Sako Lazzeroni Warbird) She was DRT when the bullet "cleaned her out". The bullet entered her "in the crack" and exited just above the brisket, centered between her front shoulders. She didn't have a clue what hit her and she fell so quick in the sage she was standing in, I didn't see her go down, she just "disappeared". But I found her piled up right there were she was standing at the shot. I've had several "full length" shots (some head on, some "rear on") with that gun and numerous other guns of mine (again ALL using Barnes) and the results have all been the same. But let me say that I would NOT recommend trying such shots with say a 243, 25-06, 260 etc, regardless which weight Barnes you had! The weight, speed and "umph" just aint there IMHO. The lightweight 150 works fine in my Lazzeroni because it's going double aught warp speed. I don't shoot the 150s in my 30-06s, I shoot the 180s in them because they don't have the speed either so I rely on momentum/S.D. IMHO if you don't have the speed then you need the weight. If you have neither, you have no shot!

Muzzleloader wise, the farthest TX heartshot I've done was on a 220# 130inch 8pt that was 187yds (again lasered). He was walking down a lane, following a doe. It was getting darker and he was getting farther and farther away. I was in a shooting house, I knew my guns trajectory, I have supreme confidence in the 300 Xpander and my Savages ability to deliver that bullet anywhere I want it inside of 250yds so with a steady rest on the window sill, I set the crosshairs 4" above the bucks tail & I squeezed the trigger. The bullet entered about 1" below his rectum (and stopped in front of the lungs, just above the brisket). At the shot he staggered back and tripped over himself 5-7yds flat of his back to his left and into some tall sage grass/NWG. He then regained his footing and ran 30yds into the woods (downhill) where he piled up in a heap.

Again, I ONLY take these shots when these are the only ones presented, I KNOW the distance and I know my rigs abilities at those given ranges. I have all the confidence in the world in my rigs and the loads I've chosen for them after years of successful results. I agree with many, it's not simply a matter of "sticking a bullet up their butt" because in most cases you've then lost a deer and more importantly you've made life MISERABLE for that animal! If you can't kill them in seconds then give them another day!!!

rafsob 12-11-2014 08:48 AM

Maybe we are talking about weird gun shots. First, I have never had the kind of damage that Chaded got with that 300 gr. XTP. And never had a Parker explode on impact.

I used to hunt in a shotgun only county and use a Copper solid Remington slug and got this:

Entry shot:



Exit:



But as you can see, I shot my deer in a spot that didn't loose any meat. Granted this was a shotgun slug, but the bullet is a Barnes bullet head similar to what we shoot in our ML'ds.

I shoot for the vitals and try my best to do the least damage to the meat if possible. Ideally, I do love the results I get when bow hunting:



This is an entry wound and I didn't take a photo of the exit, but it was the same. And the arrow doesn't do a lot of meat damage. But I will admit, I have seen some weird exit wounds!!!!!


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