Jenks

I spent a couple of hours this afternoon trying to sight in a new scope on a CVA Optima. I am shooting T/C Sure Fire 230 grain in Mag Express sabots. I had a target set up at 50 yds, figured I did not need much powder so I was shooting one 60 grain 777 mag and the Winchester Triple Seven primer. First shot missed everything so I moved the target up to about 25 yds. I got the next one on the target and did some adjusting to center it. The adjusting had no effect as I shot and moved the target a little farther away. I was swabbing between shots and making no progress. A guy came up as I was loading my 8th and final shot. I missed the entire target again. He said that the bullet hit the ground about half way to the target. It also sounded a little different as had one or two of the others. On the way home I was ruminating over the bad showing and I think I know what was going on. I was not using enough powder to obdurate??? the sabot with a light bullet and it was sometimes not sealing the gas behind it. Certainly the last shot must have done that and maybe some of the others. Next trip I will use two 50 grain pellets and see if things improve. Any other thoughts on what is going on?

cayugad

I would suspect/check your powder. It could be bad powder. The reason I say this is I dry hole set a roundball once in my life.. And to get it out I removed the nipple and packed powder down the bolster. I might have gotten 5 grains down there I am guessing. When I aimed down range at a 25 yard target the rifle not only shot that ball out the barrel, but it hit the target and bounced almost half way back to me. My black Labrador (as he loved to do) took off snooped around came to me and handed me the roundball. So even 60 grains you loaded, should have been plenty.

When you seated the sabot did it fall down the bore almost? I suspect not. While you might not have gotten great accuracy, I really suspect its the powder.

Your future range report will be most interesting.

Jenks

Cayugad, the powder is not old, I bought it maybe three months ago. I keep the box in a plastic bag inside the house which is air conditioned so it should not have picked up moisture. Your suggestion does make sense, I will use the 50 grain pellets next time, they are sealed better in those tubes. The sabot and bullet did not seem to be undersized, it took some real pressure to get them down the barrel. Another though is maybe I am using too much Windex on the swabbing patch, but I follow that up with a dry patch so I should not---but I am using a shotgun cleaning rod and that does not get the patch all of the way to the bottom against the breech plug like a jag would. I may be wetting down some of the powder. I may need to lighten up on the Windex.

cayugad

That very well could be. With the shotgun rod, you might be pushing water down to the bottom of the breech and that would foul the load. When you cleaned it, was there a large amount of powder fouling in front of the breech plug?

Blackpowdersmoke

Jenks...

If you're spraying windex onto your patch... fold the patch a few times and squeeze it between your fingers after you spray it so that you remove the excess moisture. You only want the patch damp, not wet. If you want to assure that you're getting any excess moisture out of the breech area, get yourself a patch worm that will fit the threads of your rod. After you've wiped the bore dry, wad up a dry patch and push it down to the bottom and tamp it lightly then leave it set for 10-15 seconds. Screw on the patch worm and retrieve it. If it feels damp then repeat the process. This should help "wick" any excess moisture out of the breech area. I've taken deer with a 60 gr charge so I seriously doubt that it's a question of not enough powder.

BPS

WV Hunter

No way 60gr is too little, and your bullet/sabot is fine. Something ain't right. Next time use a JAG with either a spit patch or just a VERY LIGHTLY dampened windex patch, or alcohol patch. Then follow with a dry patch. See if that makes a difference. Sounds like it could be damp powder due to the method you were using. Thats the only thing that even makes any sense to me.

I guess there is the remote possibility that the pellets could be bad, but since you said they were pretty new that is not as likely. If on your next trip you don't get the results you expect, I'd pick up some new loose powder and go from there.

Jenks

I think the answer is that I was flooding the breech area. I was using Windex in a small dishwashing detergent bottle instead of the spray type bottle and got the patches wet, not damp. I did squeeze them out but I am sure that there was still too much moisture. I have cleaning jags and worms, it just seems faster to use the shotgun rod--I will go back to the jag. I sometimes lose one in the bore with the jag and the shotgun rod does not allow that to happen. And yes, during this ordeal I pulled the breech plug and it had a damp residue caked up on the end. I did not catch on at the time, but it was most likely unburned powder. Us BP new guys seem to have to try to do things wrong first.

Muley Hunter

Two licks on a patch is all you need to clean a 1 shot bore. Compare two licks to what you were doing, and you'll see how you went wrong.

WV Hunter

Agree....all I ever use is a spit patch, unless I'm shooting alot of rounds - which isn't that often.

Jenks, sounds like you are on the way to better groups

lemoyne

Sounds to me like you have a number of problems. A 230 grain works well in a 1-38 twist and it sounds like your powder was wet either from something your were doing or because it has gathered moisture 777 will under some circumstances gather moisture like a sponge.
My recommendation would be to get a can of Pyrodex and a hand full of bullets in .452 dia. and in weights of 250, 275 and 300 grains and try 90, 100 and 110 grains of volume measured powder, if those won't shoot look for a scope or loose mount or loose sight problem.
.230 grain bullets are kind of short for a 1-28 twist and some guns just won't shoot them at all well. If the gun is loading the sabot and bullet without much effort it is probably to loose to shoot good.