That First Shot
 

Well.. the first shot from a clean barrel was kinda by itself. What i expected was for the first and second shots to be together, and for the following shots to be in a group of their own. Not so. The rifle was an Omega X7 with a 1X Nikon scope mounted. The load was 300g Deep Curl, 110g Blackhorn powder, crush rib sabot, Federal 215 primer.









As i drove home i pondered what to do. Immediately vetoed was to hunt with a fouled barrel. Then i thought about popping a few primers before the rifle was loaded. Since i have taken to using rifle primers, because they are quite clean, and because they cause zero wear to the flash hole, i realized this would be kinda useless. So.. i thought well i will just install a breech plug that utilizes a shotgun primer first, and pop some shotgun primers. Then the thought struck about how shotgun primers foul the flame channel so. Then i wondered if there was an old breech plug laying around that had a vent liner installed. It seemed to me if the shotgun primers were popped in a breech plug without a vent liner in place, more fouling would reach the barrel.

After the rifle was cleaned, the vent liner was removed from an old breech plug, and the plug was installed into the rifle. A shotgun primer was popped.. holy smokes it was deafening in the garage, and there was lots of , soot, and flame that came out the barrel. Two more primers were popped, with hearing protection in place. The flash hole seems to hold back a lot of fire, and sound. The old plug was removed from the rifle, and the plug set up for rifle primers installed.

Using the same load the following target was punched.









Every shot just got higher, and higher, but the first shot kinda wasn't so alone this time. Kinda seemed popping the shotgun primers in the breech plug without a vent liner installed worked. Well, i figured i should have waited some between shots, so i had to redo everything.. the rifle had to be cleaned, and the shotgun primers popped without a vent liner in place.

Then i tried shooting another target, however this time i waited and waited between shots. The results were pleasing to me.












Then a move was made out to 100 yard, and 5 shots taken, and i really really wanted to turn up the power dial, but alas it wasn't there. Aiming was difficult because the cross hair of the 1X scope completely hides the red circle.











It seems the primer fouling from a breech plug with a large large flash hole kinda replicates powder fouling.

From what i've read. Having the fouling from BH 209 is less of a problem than fouling from a primer.

Carlos did an experiment by taking quite a few shots with BH, and letting the gun sit fouled for almost a year. When cleaned at the end of the year there was no corrosion, and the bore was like new. This was on a CVA.

Yes, i have heard the same thing, but my personal experience differs. Four of my rifles rusted using Blackhorn powder, and leaving the burnt residue in the barrel without cleaning. They all only had minor pitting, but it was/is always there. Two are now worn out; one i sold. One is a CVA.

Myself, i just cannot hunt a whole season with a powder fouled barrel. Primer fouling is non-corrosive. Blackhorn burnt, is corrosive.

I tried to find the article on the primers, but failed. I seem to remember it saying the residue from the primers isn't corrosive by itself, but it can still attract moisture. Which as you know can cause some rusting.

Not sure how valid that is. It seemed like a reliable source at the time, or I wouldn't have remembered it.

I have noticed just a small amount of rust on my APEX 50 cal barrel when I was using BH209 in that gun, I hunted with a fully fouled barrel in SW lower Michigan in heat, rain, & snow in Nov & Dec. I was able to clean it off. I have since been told that running a patch down the fouled barrel moistened (NOT SOAKED)with 90% Isopropyl alcohol will neutralize the corrosive elements while allowing you to be sighted with a fouled barrel.

For what it's worth, Western Powders told me two weeks on a fouls bore was acceptable.

That's a paraphrase not a quote but it was real close.

It depends..

JMO it seems to me that using alcohol or anything else to remove the lubricant/protectant from your barrel would be a bad Idea, especially if one leaves their gun loaded for extended periods of time. I think it would be at least inviting flash rust. I would not like doing this especially in rain or high humidity areas.

Test Repeat
 

Well we went up and shot some more this morning to see about that first shot. Prior to leaving the X7 was cleaned so that it had a squeaky clean barrel. Then the pictured breech plug was installed.









Three W209 shotgun primers were touched off, and the breech plug removed. Then the breech plug in the following photo was installed.










Then the Omega X7 with the 1X Nikon mounted, was loaded with the same load as before; 300g Deep Curl, 110g Blackhorn, crush rib sabot, Federal 215 rifle primer. Again, whilst shooting it was very hard for me to have a consistent aim using that dang 1X scope. Plus it was breezy, the sun was shining on the scope objective.. Given more time i may be able to come up with even more excuses for the crummy group.










Note how shot 5 moved right next to shot 1. Kinda indicates both bullets experienced the 'same' barrel, even though there was no corrosive powder fouling in the barrel, when shot 1 was taken. Cool 'eh?

Depends on where #6 shot might have gone. ;)

Guess.....

Killed the squirrel in that tree?

Which tree?

I like the octagon seat on your stool. "The Butt Stops Here."

The one the squirrel fell out of.

LOL

I don't know why, but i find that response VERY amusing. :D

Old man humor. :)

Muley....

Gotta love that!... Personally, I find it difficult to follow threads like these, maybe because I'm too old school and set in my ways. I don't think I would sleep well knowing I had a dirty ML in the house, no matter WHAT the manufacturer said of their powder. I may shoot a center fire rifle or handgun or one of my .22's now and then and not clean the bore for a few days but I always give the outside a good wipe down. To me, leaving a ML with a dirty or even fouled bore is just plain BLASPHEMY!

And no... I'm not bashing the use of in-lines. I read these threads because I want to stay informed. I'm just set in my ways so to speak. That said, kudos to ronlaughlin for going the extra mile to show us his experiment albeit it somewhat tedious to reach his objective.

BPS

We shoot black powder, so the thought of leaving it fouled rubs me wrong too. That's probably why I shoot the load out every night.

BH 209 might be different, but I never actually hunted with it. I've shot it a lot, but everytime hunting season rolls around I get the traditional itch, and go back to a sidelock, and BP.

There's something satisfying about hunting like our forefathers that appeals to me. It seems to fit an old fart hobbling around the mountains. I blew out my knee a week ago, so this year i'm really hobbling. I'll still be out there trying. I have a bull tag for 2nd rifle season in mid Oct. I'll be using the Renegade with a maxi. Hopefully, I can avoid the hoards of rifle hunters.

I am sorry to hear about your knee Muley hunter.. I hope it will hold up for you top get in your hunt before anything major takes place with it.. That uneven ground can be very painful on a guy with a bum knee..

I am new to this idea of black powder hunting.. So I will be following a lot of comments to learn as much as I can. I had a friend that used to go out with his back in the late 70s and man have things changed.. He used to shoot the cap and ball and he melted down his own lead to make his own.. Things appear so much easier now a days..

I also believe in taking care of you guns when coming back from a hunt whether it has been fired or not.. I was brought up with that understanding and see no need to take a risk of having any of them start rusting..

Thanks Phil. I'm hoping for the best with my knee. I still have 6 weeks. What bothers me the most is I trained hard all year to keep in shape for the hunt, and now i'm losing that fitness. Even if the knee heals i'm going to be out of shape in 6 weeks. You lose fitness fast when you're old.

I was brought up the same way as you. My dad would knock me out if he found my gun dirty.

Thank you for the kind word! Obviously a poor job was done by me explaining the process. Perhaps this time..


First, clean the rifle so it is squeaky, shiny..

Second, install a breech plug with a flame channel that is the full length of the breech plug, and pop 3 shotgun primers.

Third, install a normal breech plug with a flash hole, load the rifle, and go hunting.

The soot from the popped primers isn't trapped in the flame channel of the breech plug, because there is no flash hole, instead the soot coats the barrel, and mimics burnt powder. That first shot then, has the same point of impact as following shots, however, the soot from the primers isn't corrosive.

Ron,

I got it the first time around and it's a good Idea. Now I need to find a BP to sacrifice for the blow through.

I have a few Full Plastic Jacket plugs that I need to drill out.

Slightly New Wrinkle
 

Someone mentioned something about shooting into a wad of rags to reduce the noise. Thinking about it, it seemed the rags would also kinda make more of the primer fouling stay in the barrel. Yesterday i gave it a try. Shot 5 shotgun primers into a wad of rags, using the breech plug with no flash hole, then switched breech plugs, and loaded the rifle. Load is 110g Blackhorn, 300g Deep Curl, crush rib sabot, Federal 215 primer. Range was 93 yards for the first four shots which are in the red. The 3 shots in the white were from 202 yard.










When i came home i had a notion not to clean the rifle, and see how it would shoot at the same range from a powder fouled barrel. So this morning i once again set the target at 93 yards, and loaded the rifle with an uncleaned barrel with the same load. Shots 8, 9, 10, and 11 were made this morning at the target below, beginning from a cold barrel.