hard cast bullets
04-15-2014, 03:46 PM
#1
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
hard cast bullets
I have been looking at different companies and their selection of hard cast bullets. I was wondering if any of you have shot them out of sabots? Also, were there accuracy issues? I was also wondering if there were issues with hunting as they might not expand but would give excellent penetration.
After all the Knight bloodlines brass bullets are hard cast. Their redeeming and seemingly workable solution is the small razors that come off after expanding to increase the wound channel while the main inner core produces the penetration we so desire.
Now I have always been under the impression that if I put a good sized hole through the heart of any creature, there is an extreme chance of them dying. So I was wondering what the hard cast good and bad points are, as some of them appear very cost effective.
After all the Knight bloodlines brass bullets are hard cast. Their redeeming and seemingly workable solution is the small razors that come off after expanding to increase the wound channel while the main inner core produces the penetration we so desire.
Now I have always been under the impression that if I put a good sized hole through the heart of any creature, there is an extreme chance of them dying. So I was wondering what the hard cast good and bad points are, as some of them appear very cost effective.
04-15-2014, 05:48 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
I was wondering if any of you have shot them out of sabots?
Also, were there accuracy issues?
I was also wondering if there were issues with hunting as they might not expand but would give excellent penetration.
Shot one over 12" into a big seasoned red cedar stump. Could have loaded and fired it again.
04-15-2014, 05:53 PM
#3
Spike
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 42
Roll your own,if you can.
i make all my bullets from roundballs to sabot rounds. last year i poured up some .451 rounds to use with the black sabots and i used some really hard wheel weights. the mould makes a 300gr bullet and about the only thing i use them for is hogs, shot some big ones and always get a complete pass through. i started out using the speer copper plated 45cal. auto bullets and when everyone freaked out and bought up all the rounds i said the heck with it and bought some moulds now all i have to do is light the fish cooker and melt some lead and i get the same results as store bought bullets.
04-15-2014, 06:01 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
We all walk different roads threw life, and that is OK. On some roads in life they feel that bullet expansion is absolutely necessary. And that is OK. These trekkers can never, and will never understand how a Hard Boolit with a good meplat can possibly create a predictable wound channel, that is effective at letting blood out and air in. And this is OK. We walk different roads. I know, it is OK.
Others walk a different road with hard boolitz and properly sized Meplats. They know that it doesn't have to be driven very fast or much above the speed of sound to be very effective, not overly destructive but capable of producing a good wound channel with out destroying the entire area. And that is OK. These trekkers understand that to much speed is actual detrimental to results. ( to much tissue damage and slowed flow of blood, because of the great clotting ability of the cells nucleus, if it is membrane is broken in the destruction) They realize that there is a formula for accurately predicting the wound channel size, based on Meplat size an Speed of projectile. It can be referred to as tissue spray area, DV. And that is OK. We simply travel different roads. And that is OK.
I copied and Pasted this short old Test from another forum to share what a slow boolit can and does do.
" Impact test photo
Others walk a different road with hard boolitz and properly sized Meplats. They know that it doesn't have to be driven very fast or much above the speed of sound to be very effective, not overly destructive but capable of producing a good wound channel with out destroying the entire area. And that is OK. These trekkers understand that to much speed is actual detrimental to results. ( to much tissue damage and slowed flow of blood, because of the great clotting ability of the cells nucleus, if it is membrane is broken in the destruction) They realize that there is a formula for accurately predicting the wound channel size, based on Meplat size an Speed of projectile. It can be referred to as tissue spray area, DV. And that is OK. We simply travel different roads. And that is OK.
I copied and Pasted this short old Test from another forum to share what a slow boolit can and does do.
" Impact test photo
This photo goes back about ten years but I only dug up yesterday.
Around the time of the test I worked for a company that did warehousing for a bakery product firm and one day I scored some 30-40lb slabs of bakery shortening that was being binned. I used it for impact tests.
The test pictured was at 50m and I compared a subsonic 311008 ex my .32-20 against a .22RF HVHP. I poured a thin plaster mix into the bullet holes to form a cavity cast.
The 32-20, even at subsonic, passed right through 15 inches of shortening and embedded itself in a fence post 100m behind the test.
Here is the .22RF test:
So in answer to the question of will a FN cast bullet at modest FPS have a decent terminal effect? YES."
Around the time of the test I worked for a company that did warehousing for a bakery product firm and one day I scored some 30-40lb slabs of bakery shortening that was being binned. I used it for impact tests.
The test pictured was at 50m and I compared a subsonic 311008 ex my .32-20 against a .22RF HVHP. I poured a thin plaster mix into the bullet holes to form a cavity cast.
The 32-20, even at subsonic, passed right through 15 inches of shortening and embedded itself in a fence post 100m behind the test.
Here is the .22RF test:
So in answer to the question of will a FN cast bullet at modest FPS have a decent terminal effect? YES."
That is one man's response to a similar question.
It seems they are plenty accurate for hunting, these boolitz. The following target was punched using 338g boolitz, shot using a sabot. These boolitz have no lube grooves; they are smooth sided. Shooting was not done from a bench; there was a nice solid rest used with the left hand rested, and supporting the forearm of the rifle.
Just so we know; my hunting load this year will use a 240g Deep Curl 44 caliber bullet, and i don't presume it is 'hard'. However, it is is known to be accurate, and it is 'bonded'. It is conceivable it will be the perfect blend of 'hard', and 'soft', and will completely penetrate, any deer i manage to hit, using it. Along the way, it should create a nasty wound in lung, and heart tissue. Evidence suggests the 338g boolitz will do the same.
04-15-2014, 06:06 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
I use hard cast bullets in my Sharps and sometimes in my muzzleloader . The 405 gr 459 bullet I load for my Sharps is a hard cast bullet with silver added . The brinell hardness is 20 compared to about 4 for pure lead bullets . It will kill anything from whitetail to bison. Shot placement I think is key with a hard cast bullet . Marginal shots are the problem as that can create a long tracking job or no recovery at all . But if a person can put that hard cast bullet right where it needs to go then I've found that they do the job very well . Like everything else it works if we do our part .
04-15-2014, 06:15 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
Bloodline bullets are and have been a huge success at Knight Rifles. They are out selling the Barnes 8 out of 10 times. If anyone doesn't think Knight sells many bullets ask Dell Ramsey at MMP sabots.
The bullet has proven to be so good I believe two other companies have already copied the design and are being sold. I know one of the manufactures was set up at the NRA show.
Cayugad, have you shot any Bloodline bullets? I don't remember if I sent you any. If not I'll gladly send you a few 300grn bullets to try. The Bloodline design doesn't require a bigger bullet but I could see how most would not understand that until shooting lots of game.
The bullet has proven to be so good I believe two other companies have already copied the design and are being sold. I know one of the manufactures was set up at the NRA show.
Cayugad, have you shot any Bloodline bullets? I don't remember if I sent you any. If not I'll gladly send you a few 300grn bullets to try. The Bloodline design doesn't require a bigger bullet but I could see how most would not understand that until shooting lots of game.
04-15-2014, 06:31 PM
#7
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
Yes I shot the Lehigh Bullets and found them very accurate and they penetrated about anything I shot at. They are a great bullet without argument. The reason I was asking about hard cast is I saw them on sale in a magazine and wondered if they might be worth the investment. I might get a few and try them in some of the rifles with a sabot.
04-16-2014, 07:11 AM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
I have shot some .429" 240 gr hard cast pistol bullets that were made by a friend. I haven't experimented with them enough to see what kind of accuracy I got with them. But the little shooting I did do make me suspect that they were not as good as jacketed bullets. As I have quite a few of these I plan on doing some more testing.
And I am in agreement, a hole through the heart or both lungs will pretty much dispatch any critter. But it may take a while and the blood trail may not be that good.
And I am in agreement, a hole through the heart or both lungs will pretty much dispatch any critter. But it may take a while and the blood trail may not be that good.
