A 65 Grain Hunting Load?
04-04-2014, 06:38 PM
#22
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 973
Think maybe they're .458 but I'll play along. 400 or 500 grain? All lead? Same charge of 65gr? Can we use a trash can lid for a shield? Lol, not on your life. That would be a powerful round. Pretty strong static BC too. Be over 1000 fpe when it arrived.
04-06-2014, 09:29 AM
#23
Spike
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 13
"Everything old is new again," so the song goes.
Your load of a 200 gr. jacketed bullet at 1,500 feet per second (fps) is interesting, because in 1905 Winchester introduced a semi-auto rifle in .35 caliber for hunting deer-sized game: the Model 1905 in .35 Winchester Self Loading caliber.
It was a failure. After a few years, hunters spurned it as a wounder, not a killer.
Ballistics (at the muzzle) for the .35 WSL are a 180 gr. jacketed softpoint at about 1,350 fps. Energy is about 750 foot pounds.
Then along comes the .357 Magnum in 1935: 158 gr. bullet at about 1,350 at best, from the long-barreled revolver. Suddenly, it was praised for taking deer! Muzzle energy is about 600 foot pounds.
And lo, it came to pass that the .357 Magnum was soon accused of being a deer-wounder, not a killer.
Today, most believe that the .357 with a heavy bullet is -- at best -- a deer killer if a heavy bullet can be placed in the heart, neck or head at 50 yards or less.
Yet, prior to the .357 Magnum's ballyhooed introduction, outdoorsmen were killing deer out to 50 yards with .38 Specials loaded to maximum: 158 gr. lead semiwadcutter at nearly 1,200 fps from long-barreled revolvers.
More recently, the .44-40 and .44 Magnum have been accused of being poor deer-takers, even within 100 yards.
Now, Semisane, you wander in asking if a .40-caliber, 200 gr. jacketed bullet at 1,500 fps can be used to take deer.
I'd offer YES, but with qualifications: No shots over 100 yards, accurate bullet placement into the heart, neck or head; lots of practice before hunting season to ensure marksmanship and the discipline to pass up shots that cannot meet these criteria.
This is true hunting.
Yes, your load can take deer but are you enough of a marksman to consistently put that 200 gr. bullet where it will have the greatest effect?
I sense you are.
I knew a man in northern Idaho years ago who took deer with an M1 Carbine: 110 gr. jacketed softpoint at about 1,950 fps. He waited along a game trail, never took a shot over 50 yards and put the bullet in the neck. When I spoke with him, he'd bagged more than a dozen deer with that M1 Carbine.
He had the discipline to hunt within the limitations of his cartridge and rifle.
You must have the same discipline.
As for the .45-70 ...
Apples to oranges when compared to a 200 gr. .40 caliber bullet at 1,500 fps. They are not comparable.
The .45-70 employs a much heavier bullet, between 300 and 600 grs. It doesn't depend upon hydraulics to expand the bullet, the soft lead bullets of the 1800s tended to widen or flatten when encountering heavy muscle or bone.
The .45-70 is a magnificent cartridge for any North American game within 200 yards (in the hands of a true marksman, but most of today's hunters aren't nearly that proficient).
The .45-70 is a far better choice than its poor imitator, the .444 Marlin, which is limited by its slow rifling and bullet weights not exceeding 265 grs or so.
The .444 was introduced a few years after the .44 Magnum, at a time when velocity impressed shooters and energy was secondary. Bullet weight was tertiary, at best. This faulty view keeps the .444 going even today, though anything it can do the .45-70 can do, and do it much better.
Your load of a 200 gr. jacketed bullet at 1,500 feet per second (fps) is interesting, because in 1905 Winchester introduced a semi-auto rifle in .35 caliber for hunting deer-sized game: the Model 1905 in .35 Winchester Self Loading caliber.
It was a failure. After a few years, hunters spurned it as a wounder, not a killer.
Ballistics (at the muzzle) for the .35 WSL are a 180 gr. jacketed softpoint at about 1,350 fps. Energy is about 750 foot pounds.
Then along comes the .357 Magnum in 1935: 158 gr. bullet at about 1,350 at best, from the long-barreled revolver. Suddenly, it was praised for taking deer! Muzzle energy is about 600 foot pounds.
And lo, it came to pass that the .357 Magnum was soon accused of being a deer-wounder, not a killer.
Today, most believe that the .357 with a heavy bullet is -- at best -- a deer killer if a heavy bullet can be placed in the heart, neck or head at 50 yards or less.
Yet, prior to the .357 Magnum's ballyhooed introduction, outdoorsmen were killing deer out to 50 yards with .38 Specials loaded to maximum: 158 gr. lead semiwadcutter at nearly 1,200 fps from long-barreled revolvers.
More recently, the .44-40 and .44 Magnum have been accused of being poor deer-takers, even within 100 yards.
Now, Semisane, you wander in asking if a .40-caliber, 200 gr. jacketed bullet at 1,500 fps can be used to take deer.
I'd offer YES, but with qualifications: No shots over 100 yards, accurate bullet placement into the heart, neck or head; lots of practice before hunting season to ensure marksmanship and the discipline to pass up shots that cannot meet these criteria.
This is true hunting.
Yes, your load can take deer but are you enough of a marksman to consistently put that 200 gr. bullet where it will have the greatest effect?
I sense you are.
I knew a man in northern Idaho years ago who took deer with an M1 Carbine: 110 gr. jacketed softpoint at about 1,950 fps. He waited along a game trail, never took a shot over 50 yards and put the bullet in the neck. When I spoke with him, he'd bagged more than a dozen deer with that M1 Carbine.
He had the discipline to hunt within the limitations of his cartridge and rifle.
You must have the same discipline.
As for the .45-70 ...
Apples to oranges when compared to a 200 gr. .40 caliber bullet at 1,500 fps. They are not comparable.
The .45-70 employs a much heavier bullet, between 300 and 600 grs. It doesn't depend upon hydraulics to expand the bullet, the soft lead bullets of the 1800s tended to widen or flatten when encountering heavy muscle or bone.
The .45-70 is a magnificent cartridge for any North American game within 200 yards (in the hands of a true marksman, but most of today's hunters aren't nearly that proficient).
The .45-70 is a far better choice than its poor imitator, the .444 Marlin, which is limited by its slow rifling and bullet weights not exceeding 265 grs or so.
The .444 was introduced a few years after the .44 Magnum, at a time when velocity impressed shooters and energy was secondary. Bullet weight was tertiary, at best. This faulty view keeps the .444 going even today, though anything it can do the .45-70 can do, and do it much better.
Last edited by Gatofeo; 04-06-2014 at 09:44 AM. Reason: addition of .45-70 comments
04-06-2014, 11:55 AM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
04-06-2014, 04:27 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
04-06-2014, 04:31 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
That's with a Pedersoli creedmore sight but I'm thinking about putting a 6x Malcolm tube scope on it . The 31 inch tube scope
