New bullets
 

I just got done with making 160 of my 409 gr RCBS 11mm .446 rifle bullets. They were weighed +- .5 grains. and the hardness is 8.5 BHN. On my hardness tester my old bullets were .045 these test at .050 the hardness is as close as I could get it. I dropped in one 400 gr piece of hard lead and it went from .042 to .050 and that was in a 10 pound melt. These are going to be awesome. Ron

A very nice looking bullet. And what rifle do you shoot them out of?

ron are you going to be paper patching these for a .45?

Hey Ron, they look a lot like a bullet I pore for my .45-70. But my bullet weighs in at about 525 grs.

These are paper patched and I shoot them out of my Hot Rod Hawken. It has the Green Mountain 1-30 twist. I got my deer last year with that gun and bullet. Ron

Yep I love that 45. Ron

Yes, yes they are.

I'm still having a hard time believing this is a muzzle loading bullet instead of a cartridge bullet. How does the bullet expand to form a seal going down the barrel? Does the paper work to form the seal? How soft is your lead?

rafsob, this bullet is a 11mm rifle bullet, It was made for a BPCR. This bullet is being launched at about the same speed as it was intended in the BPCR. I also use a Lee 500 S&W bullet for a paper patched ML bullet.
I use a over powder wad and the paper patch helps to snug up the fit. The over powder wad is the main seal and the paper is there to protect the barrel from the lead and the lead from the barrel. Think of the paper as a sabot. I have customized the lead to what works the best. This rifle like the lead to be 8 to 8.5 BHN. Ron

Cool. Never thought of doing this when trying to find a good bullet for my guns. As you may know it can be hard finding good bullets for a picky gun!!! ;)

Yes it can. I bought a Pedersoli .446 mould. I dot it a little and tried this RCBS bullet. I never went back. Some times things just click. Ron

Ron,

I understand the use of the (felt I assume?) over powder wad as I use them myself when shooting lead conicals from my BP rifles. But what is the purpose of using a harder lead when paper patching, and how do you know when you have the BHN right on the lead? Seeing as how the paper patched bullet doesn't actually contact the barrel, why would the BHN be so important? Other than needing a bullet that will penetrate deeper with less expansion.

BPS

Once I found a bullet that the barrel liked I added hardness to see what it would do for the groups. Most BPCR shooters shoot alloyed lead in the 16-1 to 20-1 AKA 10 to 11 BHN. The bullets I make for my 45 cal are 40-1 or 8 BHN. Well those BPCR guys are shooting mostly targets so I didn't want to go quite that hard for game bullets. I have been hardening my 50 cal bullets from 5 BHN pure, to between 6 and 7 BHN for quite a while. The longer 45 cal bullets in the BPCR guns "slump" if they are too soft. I don't know if mine were doing that or not but as I hardened them they grouped better. The lead mixture I have been using in the 50 cal's is an awesome mixture but that mixture was not as accurate in the 45. I shot my deer last year with the 8 BHN lead and they performed awesome.
I have a Cabine Tree Hardness tester. So I can tweak the lead to what ever I want it to be. Then I test them for groups.
As a comparison the old Knight lead bullets they sold with the sabots are right at 9 BHN. I shot those for a long time and loved them. So I knew that those behaved well in game so i knew my bullets were not too hard. Ron

Ron,
When you say that the longer .45 caliber bullets "slumped" if they were too soft...

Do you mean that they deformed a bit upon firing much like a pure lead round ball obturates (becomes somewhat oval) upon firing?

BPS

Yes, but most of the "slump" they were dealing with was in very long 45 cal bullets. The BPCR guys knew it was an issue so the bumped the hardness to help with it.
A 409 gr 45 bullet is still a very long bullet. Adjusting the lead hardness makes sense the longer the bullet gets. My hardness tester measures with a dial indicator. The last bullets I made for the rifle was .045 hard and these I bumped to .050 this amount of hardness would be undetectable with most hardness testers that are on the market for us hobby bullet makers. A lee or any of the other hardness testers would havce just seen it the same. That is where the Cabine Tree tester is very much different machine.

I'm very much interested in learning about proper hardness (BHN) for my cast bullets for several reasons...

My neighbor and I have put together a reloading bench in his basement and have all new RCBS equipment. He shoots both center fire rifles and pistols as I do, and will begin reloading for those I shoot and hunt with, but I'm also interested in shooting some of my older CF rifles (30-30 and .32WCF) as well as my .45LC Vaquero relatively cheap with cast bullets for grins. I have an RCBS ProMelt casting pot but still have all of my older hand dip stuff as well.

I also have a .50 GM LRH (1:28) barrel on one of my Renegades and I would like to experiment with paper patching for this gun prior to our regular firearms season in December because that's what I would like to use. I'm going to try a myriad of different projectiles, (sabot/bullet combos, solid conicals, etc.) but would like to try the paper patched bullet method because I'm impressed with the results I've seen on your other posts.

But when it comes to the paper patching for the .50, I really don't want to "trial by error" to a point that I have several bullet molds I have no use for that I have to try and sell later. Do you have any suggestions for a good mold that will fit the bill or do I really need to find out what my barrel is gonna like the taste of?

Another question....is the Cabine Tree tester really necessary or will I be alright with something else. I have several of my own dial indicators from my years as a machinist so maybe I could purchase one without the indicator unless it's specific to the application.

BPS

Your LRH GM barrel will love the Lee C-501-440-RF.

http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-c501-440-rf.html

This bullet is my main stay for my 50's. Every 50 I have seen shoot these shoot them under 2" groups at 100 yards if the shooter does his part. You will need pure lead, if your lead gets harder than 7 BHN the paper will strip off the bullet when you size it. You will need paper. This paper will work.

http://www.thepapermillstore.com/pap...-per-ream.html

This is the sizer you will want.

http://leeprecision.com/new-lube-size-kit-.501.html.

Here is the lead I use.

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/55_lbs._of_lead.htm

When I melt the lead pigs I add 1000 grains of lead shot to 10 pounds of lead. This will get you close enough to what you want on hardness. You will cast the lead into your smaller ingots. When you go to cast the bullets check the dross if you see blue and gold dross you don't have quite enough shot. Add a little more and if it turns silver you good. Now this mould was funny. When I poured the first one's with pure lead they weighed 456 grains. I added 1000 grains in my 10 pound pot and the weight went to 460 gr. What happened was the shot has some tin in it and antimony. The alloy helped to homogenize the melt and the lube groves filled out. WHen that happened the weight went up. I added more but I can't tell you how much because I use the tester to do it at the time of the pour. When I get the melt right at 6 to 7 BHN, the bullets go back to 458 grains. I weigh them and only keep +- .5 grains. after I weigh them I cull for looks. it takes a long time to do this. Even with a double mould. Speaking of that My mould throws two different weights. Even with the target hardness one will be 458 the other will be 460. I keep the 460 for my buddy to buy.
After you cull them down your ready to wrap. The paper is easy to wrap on and after it is wrapped you put them through the sizer dry no lube. This will press the paper on tight but it will come off the bullet as it exits the barrel.

Now the only problem I have seen is if a barrel is rough they can be tough to go down. My stainless barrels are smooth and they go down great in my GM barrels and my MK 85. If you do need to lube then only do it right before you shoot. On a hunting situation I would use chapstick. It is more wax and doesn't seem to degrade the paper like Bore butter and Hornady great plains lube does. I have tested all three of them. Chapstick is easy to apply right before you shoot.
The last thing you will need is a paper patch pattern. If you drop my a PM I will make you one using cardboard. That is what I use to make all my patches. If I need a different size or length I cut one out of cardboard. I will be glad to help out.
If you have lead and want me to test it I can do that for you too. Just let me know. Here is a tutorial I made for paper patching. Ron

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...atching-the-ML

I forgot to add that I think the Cabine tree tester is by far the most accurate for my needs. Some use a loading press, some can only take bullets. The cabine tree will test bullets or a ingot, or just a big old chunk. If you can get it in the jaws it will test it. This has saved me a ton of money buying lead. Ron

Hey Ron, two questions.

1. The link you provided to the Lee C-501-440-RF has a picture showing a flat nose bullet (RF?), but the description says "Mold produces a .501 diameter 440 grain round nose bullet". Which is correct?

2. Do you use the bullet with or without gas checks?

EDIT: Make that three questions.

3. Have you used that bullet is a 1:28" barrel like an Omega (i.e. your X7) or Knight?

The RF bullet is a flat nose bullet just like the picture. But since it is pure or I should say soft lead it weighs more than 440 grains.

No gas checks!!

I have shot them in my Knight MK 85. That is what I got my elk with last year. The knight loves those bullets.
The lyman GPH also shoots them very well.
Ron

Awesome stuff Ron! :D

Ron,

I sent you a PM...

BPS

what ron says!I SHOOT THE 500 S.W. PAPER PATCHED WITH 90 GRNS OF PYRODEX P IN MY WHITES. VERY ACCURATE VERY DEADLY. IVE SHOT ELK,DEER AND ANTELOPE HAVNT RECOVERED A BULLET YET.A BETTER BULLET I HAVE YET TO FIND!

PM sent back

I got lucky last year and found one. In my elk but I had to shoot her in the shoulder to slow it down enough to make it lodge in her flank. Ron