Honesty question
 

I was sitting in a hospital last Thursday waiting for my turn at some surgery. And in my neck of the woods, men this time of year talk deer hunting. One fellow I did not know but like me was waiting his turn brought up an interesting dilemma question.

What would you do if you broke a game law? Even if it were by accident.

-Would you turn yourself in, or would you stash the evidence?

What if it were your best friend that did it?

-Would you turn him in?

And last, what if they did it and it were not an accident, and they even found it humorous? In other words, if your best friend were poaching, would you turn him in or ask him to stop?

I never got to hear their answers as I was the first to be called. But I respect members on this forum and I wonder how you would answer this question.

I would get them to stop.

Many times sitting in a stand, I have asked myself this same bunch of questions. Thank goodness I never goofed up and hand to decide it Whether I were a criminal or not. I try to be honest and not lie. But would you cause yourself to face possible fines and forfeitures? Tough question. The one time I made the mistake of shooting two deer with one shot, I thank you know who I had tags to cover my mistake. And while my friends thought it was really cool, shooting two deer with one shot, I made sure to stress the fact, it was a mistake and something I was not proud of.

I tell and have told all my friends and family if they violate a law such as poaching when Im with them I would turn them in...I once payed a 100.00 fine for forgetting my hunter orange and didnt realize it until the game warden ask me where it was, I reached up to my head and no orange hat, in my rush to go bunny hunting I left it laying on my kitchen table...couldnt argue I was in the wrong.
Ive got a couple neighbors who think because they own their ground they can make up their own laws, such as killing 2-3 bucks when only allowed one... have made it known if I ever see them doing this they will be turned in. If you dont want to follow the rules/laws then find another sport is the way I feel about it, they are there for a reason.
As far as a total accident, most conservation officers are not going arrest or give you a ticket if its a legit accident, I say most but not all.

dbowling, I agree.. if I'd forgotten something and was caught by the Game Warden I would never argue or try to get out of it. And I commend you for your stance on poaching. I have told those I hunt with and those I let on my land the same thing... if you poach or break the law, I will turn you in. Also its automatic off my property and don't come back asking.

Being a retired police officer I can tell you, most DNR wardens in my State that I knew and dealt with, even if it were an honest mistake, would write you up. They are without compassion on any violation they find I normally observed.

Enough with the trivial info, how did your surgery go??? LOL

As to the question at hand, I have never poached or done any what I consider cardinal sins. If stillhunting on our property, I still make people wear some orange for the safety even though we are not required by law in Texas on private land. That said, I have ever broken a law indavertantly. Yes. And hypothetically, lets say I find a deer on my property caught in the fence with two broken legs. I would probably put him out of his misery and leave him lay. I would not see any reason to report this to the authorities as the meat would not really be good enough for human consumption if the deer had been there several days. If I thought the meat was consumable, I would handle it by the book.

And has someone occasionally transported a deer from the field to the dressing/skinning area prior to tagging it? Probably, but we have NEVER shot a deer that did not get tagged or that someone didn't have a tag for. While that breaks the letter of the law, it doesn't break the spirit/intent.

First off - hope the surgery went well.
As far as the question - very thought provoking to say the least.

I can't say I've always adhered strictly to the laws and regulations in the distant past, but today I try to carefully follow all regulations for all the hunting and fishing I do.

(Before you think I've been a poacher from that statement, let me give you one example.
In years past our regulations said you could not hunt turkeys "over bait". I had a deer feeder the turkeys visited daily and almost always came to it by the same route. I asked the local wildlife officer what "hunting over bait" meant. He told me as long as they weren't standing there pecking at the corn he didn't care how I hunted them. I did ambush a couple at the creek crossing 100 yards from the feeder. Today the regulations have been re-worded to make that practice clearly illegal and I no longer do it!)

Would I report another hunter (or fisherman) in for a violation?

Depends on the circumstances. :s6:

If the person was breaking the law out of ignorance I would make them aware of the law they were violating and what happened next would depend on their response and attitude. If they seemed truly remorseful and promised to not repeat the violation I would probably look the other way - if it were something that probably would not have a major impact on the species. (For example, if they were setting at that creek crossing hunting turkey, but didn't know I had a feeder just 100 yards down the trail.)

If they were intentionally violating the law out of disregard for the regulations I would turn them in!

I would hope that i'm a better judge of people to not have a friend who was a poacher.

If I found out one of them was. He wouldn't be a friend anymore, but I wouldn't turn him in.

Well I hope all went well with the surgery.
As for the poaching, I already reported in my cousin's husband for shooting more deer than allowed. He figured that because he hunted right behind his house he could get them home without tagging them and butcher them up himself.
As far as I know the Game comm. never caught him in the act.
As for myself, during an anterless season several years ago I made a great shot on a "doe" at about 350 yds with my .270. It turned out my "doe" was a small forkhorn with antlers only as tall as his ears. I tagged it with my anterless tag as required and called the local WCO. After meeting him and explaining what had happened all I had to do was pay the $25 accidental kill and normally the WCO would take the animal but in this case he allowed me to keep it. He said he would rather me have the deer than issue me a new tag and then he would have one less hunter in the woods to worry about.

I've been in a situation where one guy was talking about not tagging a deer. I told him is it worth loosing your licence, your vehicle, your guns? He could do whatever the hell he pleased, whenever I was not with him but if I am with him he goes by the law!

Accidents are one thing and I get it that it might happen. If it ever does, we will call a CO.

HA

Poaching, yes, I would turn someone in. Don't think I care who.

When it comes to splitting hairs, I don't know. Example - the law for shooting times is a half hour before sunrise and half hour after. I was always told that basically if you could see the sights well enough to know for sure what you were shooting at, then it was light enough. If there was question as to whether or not you could clearly see the sights or the target, it was too dark. I have found this to generally be a pretty accurate gauge of time. I passed on a deer last year because I decided it was just too dark.
On the other hand I know people that look up the posted time of sunrise/sunset for that day and figure 30 minutes from that and will not shoot a minute too early or a minute later.
I guess for me if it violates either a major safety rule I'm not ok with it. If it gives an unfair advantage I'm not ok with it.
Do you drive 3 or 5 mph over the speed limit? If you catch yourself doing it do you go ask for a ticket? Where's the line? Just something to think about.

The surgery went fine. All clear. But I have to go back Monday for more tests and probably a little more probing in places I really don't like probed if you know what I mean. What makes me really mad is they have not cleared me to shoot. They better have answers soon.

I'm pretty careful to make sure I know exactly what the law allows in whichever state I happen to be hunting in. To that end I haven't ever intentionally broken a law. However I did accidently once. Happened like this:

My Father and I were hunting on a ranch in eastern CO that belonged to an old family friend. This particular ranch had some really good whitetails on it and I was looking for a good buck. I passed an some small ones the first day and about 10 in the morning on the second day I saw what looked like a good buck bedded in the sagebrush at about 150 yards. I shot him in the middle of the throat patch.

When I walked up to him I was surprised to find he was just an average 7 pt because he looked bigger. I set my rifle against a sagebrush and that's when I saw the 2nd buck, a decent 6 pt. He was laying directly behind and a little below the first buck. He also had a bullet hole under his left eye. What I think happened was that the antlers on the bucks lined up close enough to look like one good rack.

We knew the local game warden and when I called him he asked how many tags we had and when I told him both dad and I had tags he said just tag the bucks and take them home. So even though I killed both bucks, which was a violation of CO law, it wasn't intentional, we had tags for both deer and the game warden was notified. I don't know that we could have done anything different but I still feel a little bad about it.

+1 on what Muley said. It would the last time we were together in the Field or elsewhere. I probably would turn him in as an ex-friend if I learned of a repeat offense.

6 Years ago my nephew took a shot with his bow at a large deer with very long thick antlers. After tracking the deer we found it and it turned out to be an old deer that could only grow main beams. This made it a spike horn which are illegal here in Vermont. Doing the right thing he called the Warden who promptly wrote him a citation. Warden was a real jerk. My nephew was fined, had to take a course and lost his hunting license for four years. So my answer is no, if it was accidental! On the other hand, if I see someone doing something really on purpose I would turn him in, in a heartbeat.

I have called the game warden on our neighbors for poaching and illegal dumping of carcasses. Years ago our neighbors used to poach large numbers of deer, would process the deer and then dump the carcasses/hides/bones down a highwall into a gulley that is within 50 yards of our land. It stunk up the place, pissed us off, and drew in legions of coyotes. We ended up having to call the game warden multiple times before the problems was taken care of. (these were people I did not know)

Our hunting land borders a large amount of leased hunting land. We have signs posted, and rarely have a problem with trespassers. One year though, I ran into a hunter that was hunting on our land (probably just 50 yards on our side). I talked with him and nicely explained that he was on private property and explained where the boundary lines were. He was very nice and apologetic- claimed that he was new to that lease and didn't see any posted signs (which based on where he was at the time, could easily have been true). He seemed like he was telling the truth, so I didn't make a big deal about it and just pointed him back in the direction of his hunting lease.

I have hunted with guys that may try and bend some hunting rules. The equivalent of going 60 mph in a 55 zone. For example, for years the hunting rules have stated that cell phones are okay for use during hunting, as long as they are not used to aid in taking a deer. Well, that leaves a lot up to interpretation- some of the guys I hunt with bend that rule pretty severely.

I would not turn in a friend who was hunting and broke a law. If he made an honest mistake, then I would let him decide how he feels he should handle the situation. None of the people I hunt with would out-and-out poach. If they would be the kind of person to blatantly poach, then they wouldn't be my friend or my hunting partner.

If I made an honest mistake while hunting that broke a rule/law, I'm not sure what I would do. It probably would depend on the situation. For example, if no harm was done and the mistake was an honest one and very minor, I probably wouldn't turn myself in, but I wouldn't try and hide it if I was caught- I would just explain what happened to the game warden, apologize for my mistake and hope they go easy on me.

I have to agree with the majority here. Intent is everything. I was on a youth hunt a few years back, when one of the youngsters took a shot at a cow elk that had not seperated from the herd enough. He ended up hitting the spike bull behind her. His two front shoulders being shattered, his dad put a round through his head, then called the warden to report what had happened. The warden gave them a small fine ($100?) and two points on dad's license. They got to keep the bull.

I thought the dad did the right thing and the warden seemed to respect that.

Just this year a guy who I've been best mates with since I was a kid wanted to get into deer hunting. I took him to a couple of my spots (which he's since gone back to himself I've found out and taken more of his freinds) and even helped him get his first fallow buck. He offered to take me hunting with himself, his brother and another mate of his one weekend so I did. We hunted some public land without seeing anything and it was a great hunt. Afterwards though they decided to drive in National Park and see if they could find something which is illegal here. I said "Get effed" but seeing as I was in the middle of the bush with them and no way out I was stuck. I packed my gun and ammo away as the law required and said "I'm having nothing to do with this" and just sat in the back saying and doing nothing just wanting it to be over. They drove along and eventually saw two young stags, my "friends" brother shot one and he dropped on the spot while the other took off. They managed to intercept the other young one and as I was in the best position he threw the gun into my lap and said "Shoot it". I unloaded the gun, said "there is no effing way I'm doing any such thing" and watched the poor young stag finally make a getaway.

Because they were family friends and our old mans are mates I was at a big moral crossroads. In the end I decided not to report them but decided never to hunt with them again. In fact the first brother that I was good friends with just yesterday asked well actually more stated that he "can't wait to go back to MY good spot" that I'd taken him to previously. Just like the spoilt bugger to invite himself to my good hunting grounds I was nice enough to introduce him to. I said no chance buddy!

There's one reason why I hunt alone. I have a lot more, but that's a good one.

Very true, I hunt mostly either by myself or with my brother. We just thought we'd venture out and help some budding hunters. It's a shame it turned out the way it did but it's definitely a lesson learnt

That must have been quite difficult for you. But it sounds like you did the right thing. I also would have a problem reporting someone - it goes against my nature to tell on others. But I would have done the same as you - never hunt with this person again. In retrospect, you were lucky - if a game warden had come along, you could have gotten in trouble just for being with the other guys even though you weren't doing the shooting.

I'm with you

The first bear hunt they re-instated in Jersey I had a nice 0ne at 35-50 yds and was praying it would stop and eat something. I had it in my sites since I spotted it but couldn't shoot because there was still 15 min till legal shooting time. How could you shoot a trophy, have it mounted and brag knowing that you poached it. That's just not me, also my hunting privileges are worth more than any animal.
However I have reported a poacher and the game warden confirmed they got him, esp. since they had over 100 calls.

Our dnr in MD are sparse and over worked we tend to handle our violators our selves. Would I turn a friend in no I wouldn't. But I would make him aware of what he done.

I think its all about intent also. You drive the roads and shoot deer at night, I'm calling the law. Hunt out of season, yep. Forget to tag your deer before dragging it out...or shoot a couple mins before/after legal shooting time, nope. I think as long as people are trying their best to stay within the law, I'm good with that. A buddy of mine shot a spike one time he thought was a doe. Just couldn't see the horns due to angle and distance. Accidents happen, no bad intent there.

I was at a funeral 2 weeks ago...ran into a guy I know who proceeded to tell me he's killed 6 bucks this year so far. Biggest was a basket 6pt. We are allowed 3 total. I guess he was bragging, though I really wouldn't consider it that. I said...6? You know you are only allowed 3. He just smirked, chuckled and shrugged it off. I've never hunted with this guy, and never will. I wouldn't turn him in either...and heck, I have no idea if he actually did it anyhow. Bragging about killing 6 small bucks is about as stupid as it gets.

Heck, I know of several guys in WV that have hunted their whole life...and kill anything they want and as many as they want, and have never checked a deer in ever. I know this to be fact, but its none of my business and they aren't friends of mine. Ironically, they do stay within the seasons and don't shoot them out of season...and get mad when folks poach on thier property. LOL, go figure.

Break the law enough...you'll eventually get whats coming to you.

It would be a fine here without question. "I forgot" is not a defense. Too many hunters try to get more than one animal on the same tag.

True. The game warden cannot look into your heart to see what your intent was - he just sees that the animal has not been tagged. So technically the warden would be within his rights to fine you - if I was in that situation I would hope he would be understanding, but would not be mad at him if I was fined.

I like to be able to go home and sleep well at night - if I know my intent was good, then my conscience is clear, regardless of what the warden does.

Yes, it would be the call of the warden.

Either way you know your own intentions.

Interesting topic, not sure on certain things as others have said. Blatant violations without a doubt will call in and will stop hunting or fishing with the individual. On other things I know people who have violated the law at least from what their story was but cant say I would turn them in. Give two examples.

One guy went fishing with his buddy, well in our state your only allowed 1 Red Drum per person well they kept two reds but only one guy caught the two the other guy kept catching junk fish. Technically he violated the law because you cannot catch your limit and then someone elses but alot of people on the water do it.

Have seen the same thing with duck hunters. One guy gets his limit but helps fill the other limits of those out with them instead of sitting it out.

I suppose it has to do with the area as well. The reason I have confidence I would have been ok is because I've seen it personally. A few years ago a buddy of mine killed a bear and while they were back at the truck dropping off their packs and such, the Warden stopped by and offered to help drag. So he walked back in with them to help drag it out. Upon getting back to the truck he got a call and had to leave. As he was getting in his truck he said "Don't forget to tag that thing." He knew my buddy was excited and wasn't doing anything illegal intentionally.

I'm grateful for people using common sense. Too many kids being suspended from schools these days for making "pow" sounds and having shirts with guns on them.

Here in Colorado you don't need to tag the animal until it's all back in camp/truck. You need to detach, and fill out the tag, but you can keep it in your pocket until you have it all out. It makes it easier for the warden if you get stopped along the way.

Dave, you clearly stated breaking a game law. Would not the same moral standards apply for all laws. If you were going down the road and looked down and you happened to be going 65 in a 55 you tell the local sheriff about it. If you helped a guy build a fence and he paid you cash for it, would you claim it on your income tax. I sort of believe you should try to comply but after all we just be poor humans. It's an awful big can of worms you opened up