Experimenting @ the Farm
 

Last night I made a decsion that I was going to use the Mountaineer and an un-tried bullet for the upcoming deer season.

I had already kinda made the decision on the bullet for the early season elk season using the a DISC 52. But the few days I was out I did not get the opportunity to pull the trigger. I had cleaned the 52 up and put it away and at that time decided to use a the DISC Elite and a 40-200 Bloodline for the deer season. I have already proven that bullet to myself more than once.

Well after the change of mind - I decided to run to farm and make sure the Mountaineer was sighted in for this heavier bullet, really should not be a real problem as the gun was sighted in for the 458-275 gr. DOA.

Got to the farm and placed 4 birds @ 100 yards and a water tray... on a box for elevation. I carried the tray out empty and poured the water in the tray closed the lid and set it on the box so that it would be somewhat level to the shot. Not much about the farm that is level.

Loaded up two rounds and shot the first two birds... the tray was next... and this was the test... I wanted to know if this bullet would actually work from the muzzle loader.

It is a rifle bullet built for the 45-70. I am shooting it at near 2000 fps and since the nose or the petals of this bullet are so much thicker than the petals for the ML Lehighs - I wanted to verify that they would actually come off in my water test or would the bullet not have enough velocity to break them off @ 100 and just pencil through.

All the questions have been answered... I can account for 4 of the 6 petals... the bullet did work and the gun is ready





I will give a try on a deer - I know it is an over kill but really want to get some testing in before late elk season...

When I first met Dave that was the bullet I started testing first. That bullet will put a thumpin on about anything and it was very accurate in both smokeless and conventional muzzleloaders. The new 40cal bullet I wanted will be better then the 45-70 bullet according to Dave. For some reason Knight doesn't want the new bullet mentioned yet??? I disagree but whatever makes them happy I guess. I'm pretty sure the bullet your shooting can be purchased thru Lehigh Defense not Knight if someone is interested.

Good shooting. That should do a lot of damage to a deer.

SL,
I would tend to think it would create a very nice wound channel and penetrate very well. What is your estimated foot pounds of energy on target at that range, not that it would really matter? I would say dead is dead and the hydrostatic shock of the bullet transferring energy into the animal would appear to tremendous according to your results one the water tray. Happy hunting.

V/R
Mike

Good shooting. Good luck on your hunt.

I need to try those in my Savage sometime.

They do have the radius on the flat bottom - so as not to cut the sabot.

It would be interesting to see wht you come up with from the Savage ot even the NULA..

They are likely too long for the NULA's slow twist but i bet they work fine in the Savage 1-24 twist. I can use BH209 for sure or load them on the mild side with a slower smokeless powder.

The chart says about 1670 # of energy @ 100.

I have a chart on Photobucket but I am having one heck of a problem getting photobucket to operate so I can not get to it right now...

All those petals flying around.............Sounds like a good way to turn a lung shot into a gut shot. Fine on critters you don't want to eat I guess. Maybe I'm simple, but it seems unneccesary to me. A 45 cal hole through north american game will "devastate" them just fine without ancillary wound channels. Good luck with it.

I had that thought the first time SL told me about these Lehighs, but decided I would try them anyway, since I have killed numerous hogs, a Texas Dall sheep, and a some really good deer with them. I have yet to loose an animal or even have an animal run over 75 yards once hit with them. The meat was still in good shape and I feel that they made a very quick humane kill and that is what it is really all about. They are a very good bullet.

What is the twist rate of a NULA? I did not know they were that slow...

I know the operation of this type of bullet is hard to visualize and maybe understand but one thing you should know it is not new. Europeans have been using these type bullets long before and using much smaller rifles to get the job done.

It really took me awhile to buy into the bullet also but after using it now for several years - all I can tell you is it works for me.

NULA is a 1-32 twist and a 300gr is a bit rough over 2000fps. It might work but i use the faster powders in the NULA with lighter bullets. The Savage is a cream puff by comparison with starting loads of N120 or Reloder7 and a 325gr FTX.

Im only guessing but i would bet its possible to get the Lehigh 305gr in the 2200fps range without too much effort.

Wow!! - I did not know it was that slow, so you are probably right - it might be to slow...

2200 - should not be a reall problem - I am shooting them at 1950 with 120 T7.

Also remember I am loading them in a sabot and they are an extremly smooth loading. I really am impressed with the bullet.

One of the big differences between it and the normal 300 grain Bloodline is the nose of the bullet. It is stronger and thicker. It will operate as designed down to around 1100 fps - which easily gets me to 200 yards...

I have no doubt they work.

However, assuming you put your shot forward of the diaphram, ask yourself what animal will these bullets kill that non-fragmenting bullets would not.

I've see a few deer shot with Remington Copper Solid slugs. They have petals as well. They work too. But do they kill game any "deader" than a 50 cal solid slug? I don't think so.

I will concede that this kind of bullet may perform better on game if a marginal hit is made. There's always a chance for some petals to hit the vitals, even if the shank does not.

You are exactly right!!! The real advanatage of this bullet is the speed at which it does it's job. If you can create enough SHOCK to the animal, especially and specifically the nervous system, this shock can overide the animals Flight system. This massage shock can and does cause the animal to collapse on the spot or near the spot. And there is no doubt other bullets that may do or have the same effect. I believe the Lehigh/Bloodline offers the bigger chance of getting this done a higher percentage of the time. A timely clean harvest with little to know tracking is always my goal.

I have posted this before and it is probably getting old but this is my definition of a near perfect bullet. I was originally developed around a Nosler Partition and now has been altered to relfect some of the characteristics of the Lehigh/Bloodline.

The Hunting bullet should be the most lethal big game hunting bullet available. The bullet design should allow the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3”, through bone or tissue, before it starts to expand the petals. After the bullet starts to expand or shed it petals it should adversely affect all the surrounding internal organs. The combination between the expansion of the bullet and/or release of the petals and the creation of hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that can be 13” to 15” long. I believe that in most case the bullet should pass through the body providing a secondary exit hole for blood and debris. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Using a bullet matching this description will normally result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot.

Again you are correct - the animal is dead - but how fast does the animla become dead??? that can be the difference... Here in Idaho and the areas that I hunt... if you do not achieve a quick collapse you may have some real problems getting the animal out especially at my age and if it were and elk...

Agree... but I would rather not count on that..

I see what you're saying.

I've always been in the camp that believes that if velocity is equal, a bullet that holds together while expanding at least somewhat, is better than a bullet that fragments.

With a substantial shank left to penetrate and hopefully exit the animal, the shedding of petals probably does no harm and may help in certain circumstances.

I'll continue to shoot good old Maxiballs in my Renegades and FPBs in my inline. These bullets are pricey enough for me and have never given me a reason to look for more knockdown power.

yep!

We do what works for us...

I have plenty of the 275gr 458s still. I will give those a chance first and see if i can get them close to 2200fps in the Savage.