I like the tan color too. I'd prefer to keep it, but I can't handle chips if it happens.

But what does CF have to do with anything about blueing... You have a Wolf that is blued correct so they must blue muzzleloaders also...

Is there a blued SS muzzleloader?

I am not sure... probably not in the mass market but possible in the custom market, because there are still a lot of people that think hunting with stainless is a give away to the animals, but yet in the ML world the SS bore is preferred by many... So it is really possible...

SS can not be blued in the typical manner. It can be covered with Black Ice though.

that doe hant no clue what color barrel the V2 wore when she dropped LOL.

Shiny is what you don't want.

I never understood the Remington BDL with the high shine bluing and stock?

Scott, SS can be blued prety much just like regular mild steel - it is just a slightly different formula - and hot blueing is much more successful than cold blueing...

http://gunblue.homestead.com/Stainless.html

If you really like the ML, Have the stuff stripped off and have a professional put a new coat of what you choose on it. If not send the gun back and get your money back.

Why not just bead blast it. Isn't that what the V2 has?

You get the coating off, and a finish in one move.

I agree. The thing that I find interesting though is people talk about guns that require tweaking and whatnot after you buy them and how you shouldn't have to do that. I would certainly not want to buy a gun, have to buy a special breechplug for BH209, headspace shims, new finish, etc.. The low price may look good at first but start adding all that in there it doesn't look as appealing in my opinion.

you got to buy a new plug with your knights for bh209 or have ron mod them soooo??

Cmon, lets not exaggerated.. BP and shims are about $30, and aren't absolutely needed. The finish is on CVA.

Hardly adds up to the price of a TC, and especially a Knight.

Muley,
My Triumph cost $249 on clearence. And the weathershield is just fine. Breechplug works with BH209.HOw much are the MR'S? CVA needs to make things right with Rafsob. And Im sure they will

How much is the Bone Collector? That would be an equal model to the MR.

Optima would be in the Triumph class.

This isn't true. Knight breech plugs ignite Blackhorn just fine, without modification.

To be fair. So does the CVA.

After adjusting the head space which is a 2 min job. Using a magnum primer, and keeping the flash channel clean. I never had a failure with BH, or even a delayed fire.

We were shooting BH long before the BH BP's came out.

Once again you are off base MD - That is not true - all of the new Knigts come with a BH compatible plug.

This isn't true. Breech plug needs to be modified or replaced with a Blackhorn compatible plug. We have learned this the hard way. You probably have used the standard plug with Blackhorn a few times, and it worked just fine, is why you have this opinion. I too shot Blackhorn many times with the standard plug. When one least expects it; there will be a hang fire...............................many of us had this happen at a very inopportune time. This is not my opinion, it is fact.

The fact is Ron. I shot at least 3-4 lbs of BH with a stock BP.

So, your fact doesn't hold true for me. I'd imagine Jon has shot 10 times that amount on a stock BP.

The reason I recommend guys get a BH BP is they don't always use the right primer, or keep the stock BP for complete reliability. They also might not have the head space where it belongs.

the plastic jacket plugs give knight shooters pure hell with bh209, thats why lehigh had to make the plugs for knight.

CVA does not have any ML in the class of a Triumph. Another fact not opinion.

Your right, all the new plugs are made by Lehigh for Knight.

I wonder how many times one could send a barrel back to CVA for chipping , peeling or flaking of the finish. For me and this is ONLY me , if it happenend once I would move on to a different model and or brand.Between the shipping and time involved with sending it back I would find it very upsetting.
Steve

So this is your complaint... and your reasoning why Lehigh is making plugs for Knight. It has nothing to do with the fact that Dave and Tom designed/produced a quality plug that happens to work very well in a Knight. It has nothing to do with the fact that the current Knight breech plug built by Lehigh for Knight was originally designed with the specifications that would even allow it to successfully shoot smokeless powder then brought to the ML world. In it has nothing to do with the fact that Knight recognized this as an advancement and contracted Lehigh to provide them will BP's for all their rifles.

And you are saying that FPJ's like this will not shoot BH from a Knight - I think that is what you are saying...



Well I would have to say that with new FPJ's and a standard OLD Knight FPJ breech plug it will effectively shoot BH in a hunting situation. It is dirty in the breech and the BP flash channel should be cleaned every 10-12 shots, but it will definitely shoot BH...



I have not tested the new FPJ plug with BH or any other powder, but I would be willing to bet you the new one (built by Lehigh) would work better than the old. So yes - you can shoot BH in a Knight using FPJ's. For me it is not the best situation but for others they make it work for them very well.

So most of what you indicate in your statement above is not totally correct and is probably a result of your reading and retaining what you want to retain.

others have posted the same question about the jackets and even you were stumped when the gun still would not fire with bh209. If it works for you, doesnt always mean it will work for others.

The old concave fpj breech plug would shoot BH209 all day long in any temperature. The domed/cleaner plug would not reliably do it in my tests. The old concave plug was so good you didnt need to clean it all with BH209.

Knight has always had a 100% reliable fpj breech plug. They also had the domed one that was not reliable for BH209. When both these plugs were made, BH209 didnt even exist.

Might have some value if you knew what you were talking about.

A lot of blowback on those little red thingy's.

Myself, i don't doubt you have fired many shots of Blackhorn without a delay. This doesn't mean your very next shot won't be a delay. What i wrote before was the plug will work just fine, but when you least want it to, it will provide a delay igniting Blackhorn powder. This is still a fact even though you haven't experienced it yet.

Your buddy wrote several times about how he enlarged the flash hole so the CVA plug would work with Blackhorn. He wrote how he shot thousands and thousands of shots through his modified breech plug. His success was with a modified plug, not the stock plug.

Think about it..............................if there was no reason for the CVA Blackhorn breech plug, it wouldn't exist, people wouldn't buy it. People are spending money on Blackhorn plugs for a reason. They buy Blackhorn plugs because they have experienced issues with the stock plug.

Just this morning, i received a pm telling me a fella was mailing me a check to modify his CVA plug so it will be reliable burning Blackhorn powder.

Mulely, Is he sending me money because he likes me? NO, of course not, he is sending me money so he can own a CVA breech plug that will work 100% reliably with Blackhorn powder.

Jon, I really do not remember that at all. I know I have always suggested that you need/should use new FPJ's especially in the hunting situations shooting BH.

And Tom's suggestion or comparison of the convex vs. the concave plug is also valid. The convex plug was designed to reduce blow back and the flash hole was reduced in size to help with this effort. That reduction of size hole in combination of the size of the flash channel in that plug would lead to problems. But as stated these plugs existed long before BH was thought of.

But with all of this what has that got to do with the CVA problem, which I really do believe is not going to be limited to this one ML. And one picture that really puzzles me is the one that chaded pointed out - why is the top of the receiver getting shipped...



This would kind of concern me in a new break open... Is closing the barrel causing this damage???

Some day i might just figure it out. ;)

That is for sure... but you would be surprised how many of those little red things they sell. They are awful popular with a lot of folks - not really me right now but I still keep the option open if I wanted to use them...

I don't really know why this is all on a CVA thread but here is my opinion anyway....
I use to have a disc extreme and a disc elite with the standard fpj breechplug and I had 100% ignition. In my mind the reason to switch to the Lehigh plug was to minimize the blowback and keep the breech area so much cleaner. I would spend a fair ammount of time cleaning that area after a session of shooting bh209.
Unfortunately, and it may have been purely for legal reasons, I think the Lehigh plug took a giant step backwards when they brazed in the ventliner and made in non replacable unless you have Ron's capabilities to drill it out and make it like the old Lehighs.

Jon was modifying the plugs before discovering that a tight headspace was just as good. I never drilled out my plugs. I have no reason to think after 3-4 pounds of powder that i'd get a delay. As long as I did everything right.

As I said. Everybody can't always do everything right 100% of the time. That includes a simple thing like using the right primer.

It's much easier to use a BP that's designed for BH. Everything doesn't have to be perfect. You can use almost any primer except the ML primers, and it works fine. You can have the flash channel pretty clogged up before it won't work. Powder compression isn't as important.

It's a more forgiving BP, and cuts down almost 100% of the complaints CVA got. It also isn't something negative being said about CVA guns. It was a smart move for CVA and Western.

However, I stand by my statement that it's not absolutely needed.

What is it about the differnece between the bone collector and the regular model Triumph that makes it a equal model of the MR? I don't see it. I also don't see the Optima being in the same class as the Triumph either, regular model or not. The v2 would be a somewhat better comparison.

I drilled my plugs before the " head space" adjustment hit me. When i got my thumbhole optima i ran over 40 shots with BH209 with the head space adjusted tight on a factory plug and it was flawless. Now accuracy went down hill after 20 shots but still.

The BH209 plug is still the better plug, i dont get near the crud ring as i did with the flat faced plug when using pyrodex. It acts like my modded nipples for my sidelocks and just keeps it so darn much cleaner with the crud ring.

Sabotloader, the top of the receiver IMO gets chipped from putting the barrel back into place, now did that happen on the MR in question? No clue, mine doesnt have these issues at all so far anyway.

Let the poor guy get his gun fixed, i think this thread has gone on long enough. Let CVA take care of their customer and get him set up and on his way.

Because we're talking about price. So, you need to pick the model with all the frills if you're going to compare.

If that is what it will take to keep this gun I may do it. It is a great shooting gun and fits me very nicely.