Which Sabots?
09-14-2012, 12:24 PM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Oh man! This was all for nothing, and I don't know why I didn't think about this before.
I knew that if I used a muzzleloader during rifle season that a scope, sabots, and pellets were legal. Those laws only apply for the ML season, but I just thought of another law that might not be, and I just called the DOW to verify it.
One of the laws is you have to use a .45 cal for deer, and a .50 cal for elk. That doesn't change for rifle season. So, using a smaller bullet with a sabot is not legal for elk, unless I started with a .54 cal gun.
Now i'm back to square one.
Dumb law. You telling me a 300gr .45 cal bullet won't kill an elk? Sometimes Colorado is annoying.
I knew that if I used a muzzleloader during rifle season that a scope, sabots, and pellets were legal. Those laws only apply for the ML season, but I just thought of another law that might not be, and I just called the DOW to verify it.
One of the laws is you have to use a .45 cal for deer, and a .50 cal for elk. That doesn't change for rifle season. So, using a smaller bullet with a sabot is not legal for elk, unless I started with a .54 cal gun.
Now i'm back to square one.
Dumb law. You telling me a 300gr .45 cal bullet won't kill an elk? Sometimes Colorado is annoying.
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballist...il.aspx?id=215
50 cal 300 grain Deep curl...
Last edited by sabotloader; 09-14-2012 at 12:34 PM.
09-14-2012, 12:49 PM
#23
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Muley - then you are back to the 300 grain Thors for the MR. It will shoot them just fine even with the bore problem at the powder end. The bullet will obturate to the bore both up and down.
The only thing might be if you can hold compression of the bh long enough to get total ignition. If not you might have to go to T7 which is not all that bad.
The only thing might be if you can hold compression of the bh long enough to get total ignition. If not you might have to go to T7 which is not all that bad.
09-14-2012, 12:54 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Muley - then you are back to the 300 grain Thors for the MR. It will shoot them just fine even with the bore problem at the powder end. The bullet will obturate to the bore both up and down.
The only thing might be if you can hold compression of the bh long enough to get total ignition. If not you might have to go to T7 which is not all that bad.
The only thing might be if you can hold compression of the bh long enough to get total ignition. If not you might have to go to T7 which is not all that bad.
09-14-2012, 01:05 PM
#25
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Muley
It might also be worth while to call CVA and share with them your problem, especially being in Colorado and ask about swapping barrels out for a new one.
One more question... with a powder load/column in the barrel does the bullet sit in the wide spot or is that spot inside the column. If it is inside the column - who cares?
It might also be worth while to call CVA and share with them your problem, especially being in Colorado and ask about swapping barrels out for a new one.
One more question... with a powder load/column in the barrel does the bullet sit in the wide spot or is that spot inside the column. If it is inside the column - who cares?
09-14-2012, 01:44 PM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
No, it starts a few inches before the powder charge. It shoots the 250gr Thors fine. I posted the target in my MR range report. I just don't like a bullet that loose over the powder while hunting. If it moves off the powder, and I get a shot at an elk before checking it. I've ruined the barrel, and maybe my face.
I don't have the .54 Renegade anymore, and it had a GM RB barrel anyway. I just mentioned the .54, because it's the only way to shoot a sabot for elk in Co.
I just bought two new files, and knurled the hell out of the .502 Thor. No joy.
I tried the same deal with an Optima at CVA. They make you send it back and they try a Powerbelt in the barrel. Of course it has no problem, and they say the barrel is fine. Losing battle.
I might be making a deal for a new Apex. I'll use the ML barrel for deer with sabots, or Thors if they fit, and i'll use a .270 barrel for elk. Done deal.
I don't have the .54 Renegade anymore, and it had a GM RB barrel anyway. I just mentioned the .54, because it's the only way to shoot a sabot for elk in Co.
I just bought two new files, and knurled the hell out of the .502 Thor. No joy.
I tried the same deal with an Optima at CVA. They make you send it back and they try a Powerbelt in the barrel. Of course it has no problem, and they say the barrel is fine. Losing battle.
I might be making a deal for a new Apex. I'll use the ML barrel for deer with sabots, or Thors if they fit, and i'll use a .270 barrel for elk. Done deal.
09-14-2012, 02:03 PM
#27
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MD/PA Line
Posts: 598
The regs list .50 caliber muzzleloader can be used during the rifle season , nothing about conicals. The regs list no scopes, pellets or sabots during the muzzleloader season.
FG/MD went over this in 2006....
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...season-co.html
FG/MD went over this in 2006....
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...season-co.html
09-14-2012, 02:30 PM
#29
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Muley Hunter
Steve may have a point...
From the Colorado Big Game Regualtions:
Muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets, provided the minimum caliber shall be forty (.40) for all big game except elk and moose. The minimum caliber for elk and moose shall be fifty (.50). All muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets from forty (.40) caliber through fifty (.50) caliber must use a bullet of at least 170 grains in weight. All muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets greater than fifty (.50) caliber must use bullets of at least 210 grains in weight.
But during ML season:
During the muzzle-loading firearm seasons for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and moose the following additional restrictions apply:
1. Propellent/Powders: The use of pelletized powder systems and smokeless powder are prohibited.
2. Projectiles: Sabots are prohibited. For the purposes of this regulation cloth patches are not sabots.
3. Loading: Firearms must load from the muzzle. Firearms which can be loaded from the breech are prohibited.
4. Sights: Any muzzle-loading rifle or smoothbore musket with any sighting device other than open or "iron" sights is prohibited.
5. Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached to the muzzle-loading firearm.
It looks to me like during rifle season you must use a projectile with a weight of at least 210 grains.
http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteColl...tions/Ch02.pdf
Check page 5
Steve may have a point...
From the Colorado Big Game Regualtions:
Muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets, provided the minimum caliber shall be forty (.40) for all big game except elk and moose. The minimum caliber for elk and moose shall be fifty (.50). All muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets from forty (.40) caliber through fifty (.50) caliber must use a bullet of at least 170 grains in weight. All muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets greater than fifty (.50) caliber must use bullets of at least 210 grains in weight.
But during ML season:
During the muzzle-loading firearm seasons for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and moose the following additional restrictions apply:
1. Propellent/Powders: The use of pelletized powder systems and smokeless powder are prohibited.
2. Projectiles: Sabots are prohibited. For the purposes of this regulation cloth patches are not sabots.
3. Loading: Firearms must load from the muzzle. Firearms which can be loaded from the breech are prohibited.
4. Sights: Any muzzle-loading rifle or smoothbore musket with any sighting device other than open or "iron" sights is prohibited.
5. Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached to the muzzle-loading firearm.
It looks to me like during rifle season you must use a projectile with a weight of at least 210 grains.
http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteColl...tions/Ch02.pdf
Check page 5
09-14-2012, 02:38 PM
#30
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
I just talked to the DOW. There is no change in rifle season for muzzleloader bullet restrictions. The minimum for elk is .50 cal. I see no way to use a sabot in a .50 cal inline.
The bullet weight is easy to meet. Diameter is what's getting me.
The bullet weight is easy to meet. Diameter is what's getting me.