Flip this question
 

We always talk about what bullet we would use for hunting and why. Lets flip this conversation. What bullet would you NOT WANT TO USE and why? Now we are talking muzzleloaders of course. So that means roundball, powerbelts, FPB's and the countless brands of pistol and rifle bullets out there .. are all fair game.

The other thing is.. did you ever use this bullet you DON'T like? And under what circumstances did the bullet fail you, or make you feel it was not the best bullet for the job? Or was this a bullet that you heard did not work and so you avoided it?

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I will start this off with a couple. First on my hate parade was the T/C MAXI HUNTER. This bullet just would not shoot well. I am sure some use it and its an accurate bullet. But I have tried this thing in a number of rifles, with all kinds of powder charges.. and it just is not hunting accurate.

The next is the Minnie Ball. Again, for the same reasons. Just not accurate enough for me.

Last is a Buffalo Bullet full bore conical hollow point. I found the bullet very accurate or at least hunting accurate for me. I shot the .54 caliber out of my Renegade. But I refused to use it after killing two deer with it. Not because it did not kill the deer. Oh no.. not at all. It killed them too good. I never seen a bullet do so much damage to the meat of a deer as that conical bullet.

The first deer I shot was a moderate to small doe. We had doe tags that year and we always saved them for muzzleloader season as there was a preserve down where I lived and we used to get in there to reduce the doe population. I used to shoot 80 grains of Pyrodex RS with this bullet. And this doe came out broadside. I shot behind the front shoulder into the off shoulder. When I butchered that doe, she was so blood shot, I ended up throwing out one quarter and part of another. It was not even fit for hamburger.

But I wrote that off to just one of those things. So back out in the woods I go, same load. Doe walks in and all I had was a dead on shoulder shot. And I took it. When I butchered her, we might as well have cut the front end of the deer off. Just ruined. I can remember my father chewing me out for using a cannon on the deer.

After that, I went back to roundball and never shot a deer with that conical bullet again. It was a 426 grain as I remember.

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So what bullets do you avoid? And why?

I wouldn't use a .54 PRB past 100yds on an elk.

Even if this whole forum says they've done it. I wouldn't.

The reason is I shot one at 70 yds, and feel it just got the job done.

I guess I could agree with that. But other then that, you feel it is a good projectile? Were there any projectiles you have hunted with that you would not use no matter what the situation?

Not that i've used. I was always careful to choose proven bullets.


I think a PRB is great. I just respect it's limits.

iagree with Cayugad on the Maxi-Hunters; never got them to shoot well.

i will never use the the TC PTX bullet. In 2003 A 300 grain PTX bullet cost me a huge elk cow. The elk was hit solidly in one lung and the other lung was nicked. The bullet exited without expanding. The blood trail just went away. Four of us looked for that elk for eight hours. At dark another hunter found the elk as he was leaving the woods: He took her out. That was the last animal i ever lost.

Planned on using the excellent Hornady 300 grain .430 XTP bullet but i read a propaganda piece on the PTX and switched. That 300 grain XTP bullet would have shredded the animals lungs. i did get consolation prize; two good hogs.

I couldn't get FPB's to begin to group. Power Belts are mediocre in my guns and TC Maxi although the have decent groups are too soft for decent penetration on elk I won't submit an elk to that punishment ever again. Oddly enough my own cast bullets in my .50 and .54 shoot the best in my hawkens and great plains rifles. I have a new .45 cal hawken that I'm about to play with. Conicals are a tough game with a full charge in some of the more traditional muzzle loaders with slow twist barrels. I for one have never shot an animal with a round ball. Not above giving it a try though.

Hate to say it, but PowerBelts...My two brothers and two hunting buddies used them a few years, they lost some and recovered some...I've had better luck with saboted type bullets...I just feel like there are better options out there vs a bullet that loads easy...

In traditional muzzleloaders, I've killed a few dozen deer with a .45 caliber round ball in front of 75grs of FFF Goex...I went to a .54 when bears showed up a few years back on our farms...They work equally well with 80grs of FFF Goex...

I will never use a .50 caliber round ball for hunting deer with again. I shot the first deer I ever shot with one and it scared me away from them for hunting forever. The deer was hit at about 15 yards shooting from ground level and dead broadside. after being hit the deer turned and walked straight away from me and headed down a hill. As the deer was about to disappear down the hill and all I could see was the antlers, I saw the antlers sway from left to right and then go down and disappear from sight. The deer went no more than 25 yards but it had not left a drop of blood on the ground from the point where it was sot to the point where it fell. I honestly feel that if the shot had not been placed so well and the deer had run 50 to 100 yards or more I certainly would have never found it due to a lack of a blood trail. The reason for the lack of a blood trail was due to the fact that the round ball never exited the other side of the deer. The round ball was found just under the hide on the opposite side of the entrance wound. The next thing I did was to buy some Maxi Balls and never used a round ball to hunt with again. I always get a pass through with them and there is always an easy to follow blood trail.

Use a .54 PRB with the proper load of powder. You'll get a pass through everytime, and won't have the recoil of that slug you're using.

When I got my first muzzleloader I used what the salesman recommended, a 295 grain hollow point powerbelt and 2 50 grain triple 7 pellets. I practiced with that load for a few months before season and it shot really well.
About 2 hours into black powder season I shot a really nice doe at 85 yards. The powerbelt disintegrated upon hitting the rib cage. Luckily a few pieces hit the vitals and I found her about 75 yards away. After that I found the forums and found some bullets I like better. I think if I were to use a powerbelt now I would use the heaviest one I could get and reduce the charge.

Power-belts, I don't like to use load for kids so the lightest load I have ever used on deer is 100grains of RS with that load the Power-belt I first tried disintegrated on a does shoulder, if a friend had not dropped her with a PRB as she went past him we never would have found her, I have also left the pure lead bullets I started with behind they won't group good with a decent load behind them 100 grains is absolute max, I used XTP 250 grains for a while and they worked as long as you had a straight broadside shot but rarely exited. From here on its brass or bonded bullets and 110 t0 140 grains of blackhorn for the inlines and the good PRB for the 54 caliber with 120 grains of RS.

The bullet i will not use for hunting, is the bullet MountainDevil54 used to kill the deer last season. Photo show the bullet blew up on the hide before it penetrated the deer. What the bullet was, i don't know, but i reckon it was a CVA bullet; i shall never use them bullet myself.

It was a PB. CVA doesn't make bullets.

After some thought I can't come up with a single bullet I wouldn't use.

But I'd better clarify that statement a bit. ;)
Sure, there are applications where a specific bullet doesn't work well (eg. patched round ball in a fast twist barrel). But most bullets have their place where they will work. If they don't they aren't around for long.

I think most available projectiles have their use where they will get the job done, but there are other applications where they will often fail, and sometimes fail badly.

Many of the horror stories I have heard over the years was a result of poor bullet/load selection by the shooter. Many of the bullets are designed for very specific conditions (velocity & size of game).
If you take a bullet designed to perform on deer at relatively low velocity but push it at high velocity on bigger game it is likely to be a disappointment. On the other hand if you select a bullet designed to be pushed hard at big/dangerous game and plow right on through tough hide and thick bones then use it to shoot a small whitetail it just isn't going to give optimum results.

There are several bullets I haven't tried, and many more I have tried but DO NOT use on specific game simply because there are much better choices available.

For example, when it comes to deer hunting my T/C Hawken with a Green Mountain LRH (1:28 twist) will handle a wide variety of bullet/sabots very accurately. I pick up inexpensive ones for target shooting, but when I'm hunting deer it will have a premium bullet/sabot down the barrel. Those inexpensive bullets just might work fine on a deer, but I'm not likely to find out as long as I keep having success with the Barnes or XTPs I use.

Just like Flounder, 295gr power belt ,two pellets and the advice of a sales man that didn't know nothing better. Shot a few deer with that bullet but lost one that should be hanging on my wall now.They shoot great and are accurate, but after doing some testing on media awhile ago I wouldn't shoot them at a chipmonk. Then I started reading some forums like MML ,talked to some great guys like Busta and Sabot Loader and they set me straight.

Steve

Powerbelts. I will never use them again. The only deer I ever lost was to powerbelts. The terminal performance just doesnt seem to be there, leastwise not for me. The worst bullet on the market.

Some very interesting observations so far. I knew powerbelts were going to take a hit. And it also seems roundball have some questions. I was looking at maybe some pistol bullets that were not cutting it.

For instance.. what you like better and XTP or a Speer Deep Curl?
Shockwaves .. I have heard horror stories about them. Anyone care to share?

But so far, its been good reading for me.

I would not use a 440 gr solid powerbelt in 54 cal. I shot a great group with my Lyman 1x48 when i dug the bullets out of the woodpile they did not mushroom when they hit an
oak log. The woulfd go straight through a deer.

One year i killed 5 deer with 300g sst. What i saw inside didn't particularly please me. One of them deer took me on quite a trip, after it was lung shot. The snow ran out too. It took some doing, but it ended in the freezer. That was the last time i used that bullet.

To me the Deep Curl seems to be a better bullet than an XTP. Behind my target i find bullets i shot, here and there, especially after a rain storm. The Deep Curl are always in better condition than XTP. Deep Curl hold together; XTP are mostly in pieces. However, i have no problem using XTP for hunting, because i don't hunt rocks and dirts.

One bullet whose performance turned me off was a LBT hard cast Wide Nose Flat Point (WNFP). It didn't perform up to the hype for me. I suspect the problem is that bullet style is not suited to my shooting preference. I think it's meant to be a bone buster for high shoulder shots. I avoid shoulder shots, preferring a top of the heart placement.

Well, I have always had great luck with the 385 br Buffalo bullets over 90 gr of Pyrodex RS. In my inline's I shoot 300gr SST over 120 gr Pyrodex RS and I have killed some farely big deer, black bear, and hogs with that load. My son shoots 250 SST over 100 gr of T7 and has had great success. I have no personal experience with the PowerBelts, but I have taken a few guys on some hunts with their ML's and I have seen those fellers get sick at their stomach's as the buck of their dreams run away. If I type some jumbled stuff here please forgive me. I have taken my meds and I have a tendency to flap in the breeze. I suppose that I would not use the PowerBelt based on opinions. I'm not quite sure that is a fair choice but its gonna be mine...LOL

I'm kind of with Wabi- I have shot a pretty good variety of bullets and have used some of that variety for hunting, but there aren't any that I absolutely would not use again.

Having said that, I will quote Ecclesiastes 3:1 "For everything there is a season, a time for every activity under heaven". In other words, certain bullets are better for certain hunting seasons, and better with certain powder charges.

For example, I have used the .40 cal 200 grain XTP a fair amount, and it has done great on deer-sized game, but based on my personal experience, I would not use it again at muzzle velocities exceeding 1,900 fps. On the other hand, if I were going for coyotes, I would load it to the max and thin out the coyote population.

Similar with Powerbelts for me- they have shot very accurately for me, and I would not hesitate to use them on deer at low-to-moderate powder charges. At higher velocities, no way. But I really don't shoot Powerbelts much anymore because they are too expensive and offer limited performance.

I have never shot the Speer Deep Curl. I have not had a reason to switch from the Hornady XTP. It has not let me down yet. I have only had one instance where the XTP did not pass through but the deer dropped right where it was hit. The situation for not getting a pass through on that shot was very peculiar. The deer was approaching from right to left at about 40 yards and was shot at about a 30 degree angle to my right just behind the shoulder. The bullet was found just under the hide at the bottom of it's neck on the opposite side. The core had separated from the jacket but both were fond nearly touching. In other words, the deer was shot off to my right on an almost level plane, yet the bullet traveled from right to left and a little upwards through the deer. I will always find that peculiar.

On the CVA website look under bullets.

http://www.cva.com/Muzzleloading-Products.php?shop=Bullets#l

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=488428

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/2710



Muley, you need to get a hold of CVA, and let them know businesses are selling bullets under their name. Ask them why they have them bullet on their website while you're at it.

I have used XTPs since forever it seems. Last year, because I was bored and curious, I switched to the .452 300g Deep Curl. I seen zero difference in performance. All the deer I shot did the same thing they do when I shoot XTPs. (In one instance, actually worse (minimal blood trail) but I can't entirely blame the bullet for that as we all know sometimes deer do strange things.)

The two bullets I will not use are Powerbelts in any form and Shockwaves. I've personally seen too many deer lost with both of them.

Same parent company.BPI.

CVA does not make PB bullets.

If you want to call them CVA Powerbelts. OK, but still wrong. Calling them just CVA bullets is not close to being right.

If you put a Bergara barrel on a TC. Would you say you have a CVA barrel on it?

When all else fails try semantics

Yes, i believe i would.

I had good luck with Shockwaves, very accurate...I too heard the stories, some said they didn't open, some said they didn't penetrate...I guess some were pushing them too fast and some too slow...I killed a couple of dozen deer with them, with a high shoulder shot they fell right now...

I got away from them because most of my shots are within 100 yards and I felt the Shockwave design lended itself to 150 yards or so...I found out a .430 Hornady XTP in 300gr in front of 80-85 grs of FFF Goex out of my Knight was plenty flat for 150 yard shots and the hollow point design assured it would open up on impact...

I've no problems with round balls, they do well for what they were intended...I suspect that like PowerBelts the fellows that have problems are using too much powder and shooting very close...The PowerBelts we had "problems" with were the 295gr hollow points and the boys just had to use 100grs of powder...I suspect if they went down to 75 grs or so they would do just fine as a woods load...But...Then you lose the tradjectory for those 150 yard shots...

This is why I feel like a hollow point pistol bullet is the best of both worlds...Even then, you can push them too fast and not be happy with the results...

If a fellow truly wants an exit every time on deer, that 300gr Barnes MZ is one of the bullets to use...I just don't need to spend that kind of money to kill these little old NC deer..... :)

You'll say anything to win a point.

tc encore with a bergara barrel would be the proper way to introduce the gun IMO.

Exactly! It didn't come off a CVA gun. It was made by Bergara.

Just like Powerbelt bullets are made by Powerbelt. (not CVA)

Ron is just being Ron.

Now i am confused. Is Powerbelt the subject of the sentence or is it the object?

I think we are all just wasting time waiting on deer season..... :)

elk season fer me

Well I have to agree with Pluckit ont he 50 PRB and blood trails. I too have found them almost non-existant. As for the Maxihunters Dave hates I have killed several deer with them and found them plenty accurate enough out of at least one of my MLs. My friend uses them and gets excellent accuracy. He shot a doe at 110 yds one snowy January day a few years back that I pushed into him. Powerbelts - the biggest does I ever shot was with a 245 gr .50 cal PB. I recovered her but wasn't too impressed with the performance of the bullet. I was a perfect double lung hit with a pass thru but not much tissue damage. My fav bullet is the XTP. This bullet in the .400 cal 200 gr or the .429" 300 gr for the MLs as well as the 240 gr .429" in my handgun has never let me down on dear. No deer I ever shot with either of these went more than 50 yds.

Boy is that the truth. This hot weather is making it even worse. It's not fun to scout in this heat.

new mexico is even worse! Im in Raton right now and the heat is just beating down.

The CVA boys have deflected again. The thread started out to be about poor performing bullet. Many of these poor performing bullet were CVA bullet. The CVA boys then began the deflection about the name of these bullet. At least now we know the name of these bad bullet is Powerbelt. Then we were taught the correct name of the barrel. Now we read about the weather in New Mexico. Now, if i refer to you boys as the BPI boys, is that correct? You BPI boys sure are good at deflection, and once again have steered a thread off course. We went from bullets we wouldn't use, to proper naming, to the heat, to the weather in New Mexico. Excellent deflection from the fact that them powerbelt bullet have many detractors.

Ron, do you need a hug? You seem a bit tense lately.