Yes, I should have mentioned that too. They were sneaky by putting holes in the granules to make it measure like BP. There's no doubt it's a very powerful powder for a sub.

I was referring to the lower velocity of BH compared to T7 at lower charges. Of course it will gain velocity over T7 as the volume gets higher and the bullets get heavier. That a characteristic of BH.

I didn't want someone thinking T7 is more powerful than BH. Apples to apples. I don't think it is.

Both powders work, but BH is less fussing for me. Especially, for hunting.

If it was not for the crud ring some people experience with Triple Seven powder, Triple Seven and Blackhorn would be very equal. AS this seems like a real sticking point with some. Or at least Blackhorn would be harder to compete with it. And I am not saying BlackHorn is not a good powder.

I know the swabbing aspect seems important to many that shoot BlackHorn 209. To me it means nothing. When I am on the range, I have all the time in the world. So if I have to spend a minute or two swabbing between shots, if a Black Horn shooter was side by side to me.. they'd probably be waiting for their barrel to cool anyway. Swab with alcohol, and chemically, shouldn't your barrel cool faster as alcohol increases evaporation which also means release of heat faster?

The shot to shot consistency would also be very close. I get excellent results with Triple Seven shot to shot. As long as I swab between shots. And the Blackhorn I get great consistency after about the third shot. For some reason I find I need to foul the bore of the rifle with BH.

But when you want to compare or argue which powder is better. Here is the big kicker.. besides price mind you. I own over 40 muzzleloaders and I can shoot BlackHorn 209 safely and effectively out of two of them. Guess how many of those rifles I can shoot Triple Seven out of? So which is the better powder?

Cost wise.. both are almost the same price where I live.
Availability.. I can buy Triple Seven at three shops in the city. Blackhorn 209 must be ordered or pay an outrageous price for it.
Shot to shot consistency.. if I swab, again they are about the same.
Power.. since I seldom shoot very heavy sabot loads with large powder charges.. it looks like Triple Seven has an edge in the velocity department, or just as good.

So if I had one or even two rifles that COULD SAFELY shoot BlackHorn 209 and I was not an avid shooter... Blackhorn would be probably the powder of choice. But if I was a gun fanatic and owned a number of rifles... which powder do you think would best serve me?

You're right. I consider BH as a hunting powder. I have a pound of it, and if I don't get stupid. It could last me the rest of my hunting days.

Am I mistaken or is the top recommended load for BH209 120 grains?
daddus

Cayugad, I agree with all of your points.

Swabbing? Who cares? What's the big deal over running a damp patch down the bore. If that seems to be a chore the patch being used is probably too tight. Use thinner patch material or reduce the diameter of your cleaning jag. It should go down and up comfortably.

First shot consistency is important to me. I hunt with a clean dry bore. I've proven to myself that I can sight a gun in for that condition with T7 and/or GOEX and know where the first shot will go. That doesn't seem to be the case with BH, although I haven't worked with it enough to say for certain.

You are correct Western only recommends 100 grainsv BH as Hodgdon does for loose T7 but each ML company does their own independent testing and then post recommended loads for the different powders in the the manuals for each rifle.

Companies producing the powder always have to consider ALL ML rifles and the abilities of ALL ML's to handle a load of powder. Because of that Power companies always post very conservative loads to try to cover some of liability of a person shooting these loads in an older or weaker ML.

Although I think Western has loads posted on their web site for loads greater that 100. I do not shoot a lot of BH so I can not say that I have actually looked on their web site for recommended loads.

cayugad

Thank you for putting things in perpective.

Some of us don't want to swab while hunting. I don't want to bring the stuff to swab with me, or carry the dirty patches.

BH 209 makes things simple. A few speedloaders is all you need. It's modern ML hunting.


Hunting with a sidelock with real BP and a PRB is different. That's primitive hunting, and i'll accept all the stuff you need to bring with you.

A lot of you think of things in terms of the range. I only think in terms of hunting.

In all the years I have hunted with a muzzleloader, I have never had to swab. Although I did once, even though I could have loaded another shot. Whether I was shooting Goex or Triple Seven powder. Seldom do I get more then two shots in a day. And since I clean my rifle at night, no matter what powder.. swabbing while hunting is a mute point with me.

Now you guys shooting extreme distances, I might see the need to swab, if you say... missed :biggrin: or needed a follow up shot. Or just if you wanted to keep hunting..

I take a lot of shots when I hunt coyote. Even when hunting big game, I like all the shots to be the same. A clean bore, and one with a crud ring are not going to shoot the same.

To me, BH209 cures all the problems I used to have.

I would never hunt the modern way if there wasn't BH. I'd just stick to a PRB and Swiss powder.

Luckily, we can all shoot our own way.:happy0001: