builder459

Since there keeping the 1:30 twist,which i feel was the correct move,they need to concentrate on having some .40 cal .220-.240 gr tipped,lead,copper plated bullets developed. IMHO it would go a long way in bringing back the .45 cal and would also appeal to the smokeless market.

sabotloader

No doubt that would help the 45 but they also might be to long for the 1-30 if they are tipped.

builder459

It's all about the design.PR bullets make .220-.260 gr tipped, that work real well with both the 1:28 & 1:30,problems are there not plated and very expensive. a PT gold/parker type design in the .230-.240 weight range would work excellent and there both tipped.

sabotloader

Do you know the length of those bullets? I would like to run the math numbers.

The other thing the long Lehigh 40-200 will shoot great out of the 1-30, but you really need to push it out and a lot will not be willing to load a gun up to reach the best accuracy. Can you shoot the PR with a moderate load 90-100 grain load? Of course you can shoot it... but will it shoot acurately to 200+ yards. I know it will from a 1-24 or faster but not sure of 1-28/30.

I believe if some one makes a faster twist ML other than the Savage smokeless - those bullet might get developed, until there is a demand to create profitabilty - I doubt that it will happen.

builder459

All the info is on there site and again length on a given bullet is dictated by design and yes if it's accurate at 100 yds, it will be at 200 yds.Savage no longer makes a .45 cal.Knight carries Lehigh and has a special 175 gr .40 cal Barnes bullet and can't work with a bullet maker to produce a heavier lead jacketed bullet to assist in boosting there .45 cal muzzle loader sales?there is a lot of info already out there on what will work as far as heavier/longer 40 cal jacketed bullets are concerned...it's not that complicated

builder459

http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powergui...-accura-part-2 Here is a perfect example of design dictating weight. the PT gold to the right is the heaviest bullet of the 3 in the picture and there accurate. even thought these are .45 cal bullet, the same design applies to the .40 cal lead/jacketed bullets.PR has 2 designs that work and are different although there not a plated bullet, they could easily be.the bottom line is work with what your dealt with which is a 1:30 twist and it's a whole lot easier to have someone design bullet or 2, than trying to sell a M/L in a twist with a bad rap,even though it's not deserved.it appears Knight also felt this way..doing this would make a whole lot of .45 cal shooters happy and further the sales of the .45 cal, for not much investment it's a no brainer in my book.

sabotloader

Ray, I do not believe that is necessarily the true all the time as velocity and RPM slow accuracy can severely be changed.

Bullets shot at a reduced velocity can be accurate at 100 and fall apart at 200.

Correct, I should have said Savage with aftermarket barrels like the Pacnor.

Yes, I believe they could but it might be cost prohibitive to both.

Correct - speed up the twist and the longer heavier bullets will work just fine. If you want the weight like a PR then you have to take the length or go to full bore and reduce the length.

Maybe in your world it is not all that complicated- but in the real world $'s drive the market or as we all know profit and loss does.

And it is not always as easy as one might think. I think many have already proved the faster twist will do more with longer heavier bullets. Slower twist will allow more shooters to shoot a wider range of bullets at slower/lower velocities.

builder459

SL, you don't have to speed up the twist to shoot the heavier PR bullets and i know for "certain" you already know this. if not go to the site,they were tested in the 1:28 & 1:30 with up to 150 gr loads you also do not have to shoot a naked .45 cal bullet..40 cal lead jacket bullets in the .220-.250 gr range can be produced and still not be to long.the PT gold design is a perfect example of how you can increase .40 cal weight and still not be to long for the twist.it's all about the length and not the weight. there are people on this forum who have shot the .40 cal PR bullets with excellent accuracy. the only problem with them is the lack of plating and the astronomical price they want for non plated bullets..i covered the cost effectiveness of bullet VS rifle in one of my responses earlier and without any doubt, it's much more cost effective to develop a bullet,than a rifle and twist that may not sell. only problem i see is Lehigh bullet promotion can't be advanced nuff said!!!

Gm54-120

Savage NEVER made a 45cal ML or SML. Every one is a custom build with either a Pacnor, Krieger, Douglas/SMI or McGowan 45cal barrel. Both the Pacnor and Mcgowans 1-22 twist seem to be top of the line shooters too but most are pretty heavy. Mine weighs in at over 10lbs ready to hunt.

Ive shot quite a few PT QT 40cals weighing 240gr+ also but not with smokeless. Others have but the soft lead bullets dont do well after about 2100-2150fps. They begin to distort in flight. They do pretty good in a Elite 45 1-30 twist using BH209 though but even then i had accuracy issues. 110gr seemed fine but much less or much more BH209 and accuracy fell off badly.

I would love to see a reasonably priced 40-220gr JHP or SP. I know for sure those shoot fine in a 1-30. Atleast the Hawks JHPs i had shot great.

Grouse45

I checked it for the first time right now. It clearly says 1/30 twist.

http://www.knightrifles.com/mountaineer-shadow-gray-ss/