head space
 

I hear a lot of talk about adjusting headspace on muzzleloaders. I know you can do this with other guns, but I didn't know about muzzleloaders. My question is how do you do it? also what is the advantage? I have a cva wolf.

What one can do with CVA rifle is back out the firing pin bushing until the primer is held snugly, or with a slight 'crush', when the action is snapped shut. What i do is measure the primer before i close the action on it, and then afterward. My goal is to see about 0.005" or so crush of the primer. Myself, i use shims under the firing pin bushing until the desired result is achieved.

The advantage is there will be zero blow by. The advantage is all the heat from the primer reaches the powder. The advantage is the bottom of the scope won't be singed.

Trader74, mountaindevil54 has some great info. on this he will be along to help u.You basically take a screwdriver and back the fireing pin bushing out i backed mine out using feeler gauages set at .018 i have no blowback shot primers come out as clean as they went in and the face of the breech stays clean.Thanks md54.I do have the bp from western powders made for blackhorn.

ron i would like to know what kind and size of shims you use and where can i get them.Thanks

What i did was make the shims from shim stock purchased at our local ACE hardware. The piece i used was 0.005" thick. Included in the package were other thicknesses. First step was to make a disc using what we always called a leather punch; then a smaller punch was used to make the shims. For my Accura, i used 4 shim, for a total of 0.020" reduction of head space. This allowed me to use STS primer, which underwent a slight crush when the action was snapped shut. This made for zero blow by, and fired primer that looked new.









Seems to me i read quite some time ago that Russel at MAX Muzzleloader was going to find some one to make them, and then sell them on his site.

Might see if any of these might work..

http://www.mcmaster.com/#round-shims/=elx9nq

Please forgive my ignorance. But what does adjusting your primer have to do with headspace?? I am not even sure how the term "headspace" would even apply to a muzzle loader??

Please explain to the ignorant?? For I do not understand??

I can understand that it is a good idea to adjust your nipple so that the primer fits properly?? But I would assume that should be a factory fit?? Not an aftermarket fit?? Shouldn't the primer fit from the factory?? Before I shimmed a factory rifle I would send it back to the factory and have it fixed properly. It sounds like you are applying a band-aid to a problem that needs stitches.

Sorry but I am trying to figure out how the answers address headspace?? Tom.

Factory has a hard time fitting their rifle to primer, because primer brand have different length. TC normally fit their head space to the longest primer, which is the W209. Hence all other brand will be too short for a perfect 'seal', and there will be blow by. Two of my Omega give a slight 'crush' to W209 primer, when the action is closed. CVA rifles are usually loose for all primer. Adjusting the firing pin bushing out is not really a band -aid, but rather a permanent fix, if done correctly.

Another way i have fit primer to my rifle is by making a breech plug to fit my rifle, and my primer choice. This works good. I have also modified OEM breech plug so they can only be used with one primer length, the one i choose.

So by headspace you are referring to the headspace of the nipple, not the rifle. I think I understand what you mean know. You are trying to get the primer to headspace properly in the nipple?? Or whatever you want to call it. Tom.

Yes, i believe you do understand. When the action is put into battery, there is a fixed space for the primer to fit into. If this 'space' is larger than the primer, there usually will be blow by. If this space is 0.003" or so, smaller than the primer, the primer makes a seal, and there is no blow by. What i do is close the action on my primer of choice after i measure them. When they are measured after removing them from the rifle unfired, i want them to be some less than they were out of the box.

Making each rifle fit a certain primer is what i do. STS primer are a favorite of mine because they seem to be more uniform in size, compared to others.

Ron, do you put the shims around the breechplug by this i mean do you unscrew it and slide the shim around the plug and then tighten it back up.I would like to see a picture if possible also what is the inner and outer dia. of your shims.THANKS

I got you now. But wouldn't it just be easier to try different primers to see which one gives the best fit??

I tried different ones in my Knight rifle. Then I believe the bolt also applies a slight crush fit to the primer. So I get absolutely zero blowback without doing any shimming or such.

Does this make the crush fit a slightly better system?? I did notice that when the primer fit better I had less crushing of the primer. Still a slight crush, but not nearly as noticable as other primers.

I have Sabot Loader to thank for that little bit of information. He showed me exactly how to get my primer to fit perfectly. I was actually suprised that after 25 shots of Black Horn I had absolutely zero residue of any type anywhere on the bolt or any other part rear of the inside of the breech plug. I was very happy with that. Tom.

These shim have nothing to do with the breech plug.








Pictured is the firing pin bushing from my Accura, with a shim along side. The shim need to fit over the threads which measure 0.306", and has to be smaller than the rim, which measure 0.384"

Indeed!!

However this doesn't always work. One of my Knight makes a perfect fit using W209, and as you describe has zero blow by, what i mean is zero blow by. The other Knight won't fit any primer made perfectly, and so far it is quite clean using the W209, but it isn't what one would say is zero blow by. Two of my Omega use W209 with a perfect fit; the other doesn't. For the odd Omega, i am using a modified breech plug that gives a nice crush to STS primer, but it cannot use W209 primer.

CVA rifle are made looser than Knight or TC, and to get a perfect fit with any primer, one needs to adjust the headspace by backing out the firing pin bushing, and shimming it.

At first my Knight was also smashing or force fitting(with a little too much force) the 209's I was using. That is when SabotLoader taught me a trick about cleaning the rifle that completely changed the way the primers fit. Without any shims, just a drill and a good bore brush with some Butch's. Tom.

Ron i meant to say firing bushing i want to thank you for all the info. you have given us also i will e-mail max to see if he has the shims.Sabotloader thank you for the link but i do not think they have the size i need.Head0001 thanks for this thread i apolize for minor hijacking but one can learn alot from these fellas.THANKS

MAX feeding off another ones info and cashing in on it... Doesnt surprise me. Thats one reason my forum was sealed off from guests. Have to register now to view.

MD54 l'm not trying to be a smarta$$ but if you or anyone else have the shims i would like to buy some to try out.I have the optima and i will say again i really like this rifle.THANKS

O-rings
 

Not trying to go off topic, but wouldn't the little rubber o-rings that were mentioned in a recent discussion (fitted around a primer) be easier and also work with BH-209? The pictures showed a very clean primer - I assume that that would keep enough gasses from escaping to make BH-209 work fine - right? I'm just saying that rather than take your firing pin assembly apart to adjust/shim it for every type of primer you want to use, just add a reusable o-ring around your primer and not risk losing parts or messing something up.

Pictures at bottom of page:
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...ader-help.html