I trust Knights and you should to.
 

Today started out very interesting at the range. I got to shoot one shot down range and had to pack up and leave. Yes it was a pain in the butt.

I decided to go up to some private property and finish my shooting. The first gun up was the 50cal Knight Mountaineer. The load was the 250grn Bloodline, Harvester sabot, Winchester primer, 120grns of BH209 by volume. I will note the bullet at the range was the one about A 1/2 inch to the right. The next to off the hood of the car are touching.













The next gun up was the Knight Elite 45. I needed to get this gun ready for my father this November. The load was 200grn Lehigh, harvester sabot, Winchester primer, 130grns by volume of BH209. I will note, 120grns by volume just would not group in this gun.







You want to spend some money and buy what i think is the best ML today, Look at the Mountaineer. Money is tight and still want a great ML, look around for either a 45 or 50 Knight Disc Elite. Money is really tight and you like break action muzzleloaders, you just cant beat a Knight Vision in quality and price.

nice shooting.. them knights are a good rifle.

Grouse45

Ok I do not know how you and Chet shoot that well off the hood of a vehicle.... I know I use to shoot off the hood in the old days all the time... but now that I am old I really do prefer a bench...

That sure is some good shooting and them knights are a really good shooters.. but i still have seen a CVA shoot groups like that so i am not sure what the meaning of this post is..

Are you still trying to say only a Knight can shoot this well?? I would really love to see proof to this.... because I can not see where this is any better groups from any other modern MLer....

Yep, that's some good shooting.

BTW: The name on the gun has very little to do with accuracy, neither does the price. My cheap old CVA Mag Hunter does just as well. So does my TC Black Diamond.

That's my point Falcon..... but, there are others that will agrue otherwise...

Out of all the muzzleloaders I have shot , which is close to 50 different ones I have to respectfully disagree. Yes there are many that will group good but I can honestly say at this point none measure up to the Mountaineer. If a person had a chance to shoot one for a while they wouldn't complain about the price they would either save til they could get one or sell what they have to get one. Just my opinion of course, but based on experience. As matter of fact I regret getting my wife a Long Range Hunter now . I should have waited and got her a Mountaineer.

And for the record, I owned and like Knight rifles years before I ever heard of and encountered Grouse or Sabotloader. It is a preference that developed on it's own not because of someone's influence

Kinda funny... I was devoted TC Omega owner til I got my forst Knight DISC and even then that was an Extreme MHC on sale from Finn Fur & Feather...

I will agree that is a good quality built gun but, as far as accuracy goes... there has still not been any proof on this forum or any other to prove that a knight is any more accurate than any other... So, seem to me as ausual it is just a preference to the shooter... i have yet to see a better 3 shot group at a 100yds. then the one that omega45 posted from his Omega and until i see one from a knight better than this three shot group, we all will just have to disagree about having to have a Knight to shoot tight groups.... That or maybe i need to get them grouse colored glasses....

You mean to tell me that you make your wife lug around that heavy cannon while you do the light work? Maybe you ought to switch guns with her Chet.

Reread his post twice - don't see where he said this.

I have to admit that is pretty good. My omega won't do that. Let him Take it to 200 now and see what happens . I would be interested in what I would have to do to mine to get those results. I didn't have to do anything to the Mountaineer. No glass bedding, no accurizing, nothing but unpack , clean and shoot. Never even worked up a load . Just tried 120 gr based on a suggestion and decided I didn't need to experiment. Some guns I have spent a couple hundred dollars in powder and bullets developing a load. If you figure that in it makes some of my cheaper guns just as expensive to get them where the Mountaineer was out of the box.

My thing is hunting with a muzzleloader; rifle marksmanship is also my thing. Every year i shoot 15,000-40,000 rounds of center fire ammo and am a former amateur benchrest shooter. There are no inaccurate guns in my safes.

Getting accuracy from a muzzleloader is not rocket science. Some of us manage that very well without BH 209, and lots of other spiffy stuff that some folks claim is absolutely required.

I probably should.... But I wont:s4:

Chet, I bet it is still under the 4" guarantee that knight has I would bet well under, being that tight at 100yds.... but i guess i still dont wear the right glasses to see it your way...

for the bulk of us hunters we don't live in flat open spaces that 200yds is gonna matter... by the time I get back where the big bucks are, 95% of my shots are under 35yds... even if I hunt a field, usual shot will be under a hundred... so, being able to make that long of shot is a waste of time... and just out of the box and not having to work up a load in todays world should be pretty common... even when I bought my encore all I had to do was an internet search and like you, someone had already worked a good load up for me... so no wasted time or money, finding it...

I am very happy for you that you are happy with your purchase but to still imply only a knight shoots this well, just isn't true...

I have sold. Owned. And shot every brand of MZ I can think of over the past 35+ years.

And have encountered some really good shooters, and some really horrific shooters. Here is what I have found over 35+ years of shooting MZ's.

The Knight rifle is consistently the most accurate of any brand I have ever seen. And the Knight rifle has also proven itself as being less finicky as to what type of projectile, and what load you wish to shoot. Knight's have pretty well shot(accurately) whatever projectile I choose to shoot.

I would rate the TC as second in line for accuracy. What I have noticed most about TC is that they wil shoot something well. You just have to find it. Some guys are lucky and find it fast, some don't.

In over 35+ years no doubt CVA MZ's have been the least accurate of all the brands. Even the traditions seem to have the edge over CVA.

When I was selling MZ's for a living I sent back three or four more times as many CVA's as all other MZ's combined. Sorry but that is a fact.

Obviously alot of that has to do with price point. No doubt. You would not expect to need to send back a $500+ MZ. But it is what it is. And you get what you pay for.

I do not doubt that some guys have received good results from certain different MZ's. And I am glad that worked out for you. But to try and compare a Pinto to a Cadillac is basically a futile waste of time. But if you wish to waste your time then go ahead. But everybody who really knows MZ's knows the truth. Pretty Simple.

There is alot more to a fine rifle than just accuracy. That is a point that is sometimes not talked about. But I dare you to compare a CVA trigger to a Knight trigger. Or quality of stock. Or other featues. So it is just not a small group that is important in a fine firearm. You need to keep that in mind.

If price is all you care about then I can understand that. But why would you knock someone because they want a higher quality rifle?? I don't understand??

And if you think that a CVA is built to the same quality level as a Knight rifle................ Well you are just plain wrong about that. Tom.

I really wanted to get this in before someone else but - did not make it...

Steve's Omega that shot this was not right out of the box... there were a few bucks spent on the rifle and believe me they were well spent. That is great looking rifle along with his others.

Triumphs,endeavors,moutaineers,LRH,accura's all of them are more than capable of 4" at 200 yds with all the wiz bang powders and primers. THIS IS what i am really impressed with lol..http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/ph...er=asc&start=0

That's a valid point. I sometimes forget that the open plains where you can see for miles and miles is not the average hunting ground for most. And I never meant to imply that only knights shoot accurate, I only mean that the Knights I have are more accurate or were easier to find an accurate load for than any other gun I have. It something that can't be explained really. A person justdevelopers an affinity for a certain thing and others become secondary. For some it's TC, Cva or knight. Or fords instead of mopar etc. But once that affinity developes a person will stand up and defend their choice to the very end. for me that's the Mountaineer, at the moment anyway:s4:

The groups from my last range trip with my Omega .45 were only 50yds to get the new scope ready for 100yd shooting. I have yet to shoot since then since my club experienced alot of damage from the flooding that occurred a week of so ago. All ranges have been closed for repairs.

This was my sight in target at 100yds last year with the same gun and a Nikon Omega 3-9x40 BDC scope. Load was 110gr BH209, 200gr SST in blue Harvester sabot.


This was another 100yd group with 100gr BH209.


Just wanted to clear things up that the groups posted were only 50yds.

My most favorite inline right now is my TC Pro Hunter w/.45 Encore Bergara barrel.



My .45 Elite did this at 100yds with 100gr BH209 and a 200gr SST and 195gr Barnes MZ. Groups opened up with 110gr. and 120gr.



We all have our favorites. I own a bunch and try my best to shoot them all. This puppy has been neglected and is starting to get ticked at me for not taking it out to play.

Harvester 330gr Hardcasts at 100yds. :happy0157:

115gr BH209 and a 330gr Hardcast kicks like a mule! :barmy:

I don't agree with that statement. And I would go as far as betting alot of money that maybe one or two out of every ten members on this board can shoot a consistent 4" group at 200 yards with their MZ.

And I would also bet that the vast majority of the MZ's out there will not shoot a 4" group at 200 yards regardless of who the shooter is.

I have been around way to many MZ's to think that there is even a grain of truth in your statement. No way!!

And how many actually put that guarantee in writing?? How many??

Shooting an MZ at 50 or 75 yards is one thing. Shooting an MZ at 200 yards is a totally different ball game. Tom.

Sabotloader,
My .45 Omega, to the best of my knowledge, was bought by the origional owner with the laminated TH stock. It still has the QLA. The only thing that was done with it was the flash hole was drilled out to .035. I have since replaced it with an origional plug with whatever flash hole size TC uses and it does great with BH209. It has never misfired on me.

You might be thinking of my .45 Encore Bergara barrel that Bellm cut the QLA off and recrowned.

Now there is a statement, i will 100% agree with!!! :)

Like i have said, I wish there was a dealer or a owner close to me so i could shoulder one.... but, to date I have never shouldered a better feeling MLer than my Endeavor and that is what matters to me.... accuracy is a side note, to me they all shoot sufficient enough to do the job, out to 200yds..

I am not knocking the knight, i just find it hard to believe that it is better quality or a better shooter than my endeavor... I know some have had issues with theirs but mine is stock out of the box and have no problem wearing a 1" bullseye out of a target at 100 yards.. and in reality that is all you can ask and is a dead deer.....

Sorry Omega I thought that was a 100yd. target....:o

Tom, did yah click on the link attached to the statement lol. that was 220 yards with a plunger style rifle,#11 cap and pyrodex.also my friend i said the guns and agree with you that not everyone is capable of 4" at 200 yds..:s4:

that might have been because I thought you had cut the QLA off and had done some stock work...

The only stock work I have done to any of my muzzleloaders was to fit this and it was a chore!! I should have bought the varmint stock instead of the sporter. Would have saved me alot of sanding.

Both your guns are vertical stringing pretty bad. If you increase the charge those groups will really tighten up. I'm not suggesting you shoot more then what your gun can handle. I know you are safe with a Knight Elite.

Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes I do not let the barrel cool properly when its hot out. :biggrin: Time will tell with the Omega. The 50yd groups were shot with 105gr of BH209 so I will see how it does at 100yds with that load. Actually I just threw 25 charges with 72gr of BH209 threw my new Chargemaster 1500 tonight. 72gr by weight is just a tad more then my volume measurer throws set at 105.

GM54-120,
25 charges thrown, zero errors. This Chargemaster is sweet!

You should take your Endeavor and start your own blog and stop adding your Endeavor to everyone who post about any Knight rifles:barmy:

Im really happy with mine too. Especially when you start reaching upper end BH209 loads and want to know for sure how much powder you are burning.

The GMB54 will rattle you nugget with a max load of BH209 and the 50-385gr Rem CLHP. 130grV and a 325gr FTX in the NULA was pretty tame by comparison....i had to shoot some...it gave me a reason to clean the bore. :p

Its pretty hard to beat the GMB54 with a Lehigh NFPJ and a TH stock. Best deal ive ever seen at MSRP even with the added cost of the NFPJ.

Brand new at $424 delivered, I believe, it was a steal!! I'm glad I grabbed one before they stopped production. :barmy:

Did I send you the 400gr Hardcasts? They will rock you! :party0007:

Maybe you should ask knight to start a forum for just you... then you wouldn't have to hear about any other MLer... untill then, i will post about what ever MLer, i wish...

Maybe if the knight guys would not post BS about how the knight is top of the line and nothing compares you wouldn't have to hear other people disagree... I am sure there are alot more than me that feel this way but they don't want to hear the criticism of dissagreeing with the ones that dominate the board...

But, i am not here to make friends and don't care what anyone thinks, especially you... a new guy that knows nothing more than what SL has taught him...

You're joking, right?





.

I am not a Knight Fan Boy or a T/C lover for that matter, and SL has been a help to lots of people, matter of fact I was going to trade a Knight for a T/C but other things came up and that is on hold now.
But it is easy to see you love T/C rifles, so that being said why on every post about a knight do you add your two cents? The reason why I am not jumping on the Knight band wagon yet is because who knows if they are going to make it again.And as far as T/C goes there a S&W company and how knows what they will be doing with there lineup down the road, as another forum member stated I see the sidelocks going bye bye soon!!
And as far as knowing nothing about MLer has nothing to do with this conversation!!!

Jason

Well thats where you are wrong, I like lots of rifles to include Knight, TC, Lyman, Traditions, White... But out of the ones that i have or have had the pleasure to shoot, non to date has compared to my TC... so, when someone makes a statement that only a knight has the quality and accuracy and everyone should own one, as grouse does... i put my opinion in as well... it is not to take away from knight (they are a good MLer) but, they are not the only accurate ones out there...

Absolutely TRUE!!!!

Understandable about the accuracy department

Jason

"sits here grinning while polishing up his Optima"