Round ball effectiveness?
 

Hi everybody we just recently bought my dad a percussion hawkins rifle from cabelas. He shoots 70 grs of triple seven and hornady .490 round balls. He is getting good accuracy but I was wondering what the effective lethal range on a whitetail would be? And how far to expect one to run after being hit? and if anyone has ever shot a deer using round ball ammunition would you mind letting me know what the results were like?

Let me see...Daniel Boone died in his sleep at 85, he never used anything but a roundball and was a market hunter in his younger days...

I started using a flintlock back in 1977, it was a .45...I never lost a deer because I was using a roundball...I've since rebarreled the .45 to a .40 and made a .54 back in the 70s, mainly because we have black bears on our farms...

Ain't nothing wrong with a roundball, it will kill as far as you need to be shooting with open sights...

A round ball from a .50 is good for 100 yards on a whitetail westtexducks. Heart/lung shots are recommended. Some run, some drop. The ball will usually pass through and give you a good blood trail.

Welcome to the Black Powder forum.

That combo would be good out to 100 yards. I say that because I've killed several w/80g of Pyrodex (which is about the same load as what your dad is shooting)

If he is making good shoots on them i.e. not shooting them facing away from you, then you'll be just fine.

People don't seem to like the RB but when I think back, I believe I've probably had more boom-flops with a RB than I have any other bullet...

In the last eight years I have taken 8 deer using patched round balls. None have traveled more than 20 yards after being hit and two were out past 100 yards. I will never take a shot at a running deer and always only take heart lung shots.

That is a 100 yard load but of course we all want closer then that. As for how far the deer will run.. that will all depend on where that ball is placed. Neck shots plant them, but are risky at best. Head shots, the same as a neck shot. Heart and lung will kill them without doubt. I have had then run from nothing to almost fifty yards. It also depends on the deer. Some are in alert or flight mode and it seems when you shoot them, they can really put some distance under them.

I have used roundball for many years. A roundball in the right place is all that you will need. Those Cabela's are nice rifles.

The first deer I ever shot with a muzzle loader was with a .50 cal. Hawkins loaded with 83 grains fff Goex and a patched round ball. It seems I am the only one who doesn't believe round balls to be the an efficient way to harvest deer. The shot I took was no more than 20 yards and did not pass through. Had the deer run a long distance and gotten out of sight, there would have been no way to track it due to the lack of a blood trail. I have not used a round ball to hunt deer with since. Use a Maxi Ball and there will be no problem tracking the deer if the need arises. I just got a .54 cal. side lock and if I can get round balls to group out of it I will try to harvest a deer with a round ball out of it.

In the 80's I only shot round ball and never lost a deer some of the biggest mulies I ever shot was when I lived in NM and they were taken with a 54 cal round ball

A round ball is all I shoot out of my hawkens flintlock. I killed a lot of deer w no problem with it. This year I am going after bear and elk with it. I am extremly confident that it can do the job.

I have to agree with NCHawkeye and the Daniel Boone story. If our fore fathers had our luck, we would not be here today I think. Sounds like you had a powder problem pal. I have yet to have any problems shooting a PRB. I shoot PRBs from both my .50 Hawkens and .58 Big Boar. :confused0024:

All I can tell you about the penetration power of a roundball is at over 80 yards, a .530 ball with 80 or 90 grains of Pyrodex RS passed through one deer killing it, and then into a second one, breaking the spine of that deer. The ball was lodged under the skin on the other side of the spine on that second deer.

Pluckit ... in what part of the deer did you recover that ball? Also how badly deformed was it?

i have taken deer with a 40 caliber, a 45 caliber ,a 50 caliber,a 54 caliber ,a 58 caliber and a 62 caliber. It did not take me long to figure out that a 40 and a 45 are better squirrel than deer guns and while a 50 is better I still had to track some to far to suit me when it was all said and done the 54 was the one that impressed me it dropped most deer in their tracks I also so took bear, boar and elk with a 54 in any thing under 150 yds it is as dependable as a high power rifle. I will say it does not pay to use child starter loads on big game. I loaded a 535 ball and 120 gr of RS in the 54 and 110 gr of rs in the 50 those were the most accurate loads at all distances to 150 yds. The 58 and 62 did massive damage but I could not get the drop on the spot consistently like I did with the 54.

The hit was behind the shoulder and the ball recovered from under the skin directly on the other side. No powder problems, no misfire, nothing. Just my opinion based on 1 experience.

Killed this doe three years ago with 54 cal round ball. Rifle was a TC Renegade. Shot was at about 35yds. Complete pass through. Good blood trail. She ran about 25yds and crashed right on the side of the access road. Drove the truck right up to her. With the load your dad is using, if he puts it in the boiler room the animal is going to go down.

I killed a 7pt with my TC White Mountain Carbine using that load. I estimated the shot at about 70yrds. It dropped him in his tracks....

Pluckit.. that ball really expanded. It must have hit something pretty solid inside the animal. But you never know what is going to happen with these muzzleloader projectiles.

Yakfisher.. that's a nice fat doe you got there. Beautiful animal.

And Buckhunter.. beautiful buck. You know seeing these pictures is getting me excited because season will be here again soon. Well bow season starts in September.

Ideally a .50/round ball is best out to 80yds for deer.Beyond that a .54 would be better.With a scope you might be OK to 100yds but IMO scopes have no place on sidelocks.

That is the beauty of a forum like this. We express our opinions and others can disagree without an argument. I personally have no problem what so ever with a scope on a side lock. I have several with scopes. If you base it on appearance, then your basically saying that you like the traditional look of the rifle, and that is all fine and good. Others like me like the scope because it allows me to be a better shot. Eyes get old and sometimes need help. That is what a scope does for me. It allows me to make those 100 yard shots with confidence. After all I want to put the largest world of hurt on the game I shoot so that it will not suffer anymore then it must. A scope allows me to do that. The only thing I do not like to see with a scope is people trying to over shoot the capabilities of the bullet and powder they are using.

If'n you're shootin Texas deer they're pretty small anyhow. A 50 cal RB will surely do the job.

Most RBs that I have seen look just like yours. This is what they should look like. That is the beauty of this projectile. They work and work well for over a few hundred years!!!

Thanks for all of the replies everybody. I figured they would get it done to at least 80 yards. But I was real sure how they would perform as I do not have any experience with blackpowders yet. And to gearheart I am from west texas not back in east texas where the deer are the size of goats are. muleys out hear get just as big as those up there because they live in the worlds biggest oak forest so all they do is eat acorns and walk up and down sand dunes. and he probably will not shoot past 60 yards anyways. and texasheart shots are out of the question with the blackpowder but on a sidenote I have seen a 30-06 lay one down with a texasheart shot. Do not advocate it but I have seen it done. Again thanks to everybody about the positive feedback.

I believe the original question was about the effectiveness of a .50 caliber round ball. Some of you are using a .54 and I have little doubt of how lethal that projectile is. As you might already know, I just purchased a .54 caliber rifle to give the .530 cal. round ball a try. But again, with my experience with a .50 caliber round ball, I can not advise anyone to use one to harvest a deer with. As for Daniel Boone and the likes of him, their lives depended on harvesting game and were more than likely much better at hunting and tracking game then the average individual is these days. No doubt they were much better at it then I am. So I don't see how they and what they used then to harvest deer with can be related to the average weekend warrior of today. In the end it will always be each individuals decision as to what load to use to EFFECTIVELY harvest deer with, within the limits of their state and or local laws, and I wish them all the best of luck with what ever bullet or ball and powder load they decide to hunt with.
Sincerely,
pluckit

pluckit
One of 6the reasons they used some what smaller calibers is because they had to carry enough ammunition to last a long time and one of the reasons it was effective was because of the 44 and 48 inch barrels giving a considerable difference in velocity. If you look at history you will notice that as time went on the trend centered around the more ballistically effective calibers which had more terminal effect. If you are going to take down a grizzly or buffalo with a 45 you better have a very fast horse and stay on him.

Pluckit:

I beg to differ with you about the 50 cal round ball for deer. In my personal experience I have found them more than adequate for taking deer. Among my acquaintances I know at least 10 muzzle loader aficionados who will hunt with nothing else. In talking with them the consensus of opinion is that just by the limitations imposed on them by their choice to do so in and of itself makes them better hunters as a whole. Part of what I enjoy in hunting with round balls is the challenges it presents and find to being successful using them I pass up quite a few shots simply because I don't feel confident in taking them. My personal preference when using round balls is a gun with at least a 33 inch barrel and a 1 in 66 twist. I feel that they are much more accurate and give me a little more range. I could be wrong and probably am, but it works for me. Although I own several guns with shorter barrels and 1 in 48 twists I regulate them to using conicals.

I agree that the average weekend warrior does not posses the skills to hunt with round balls. But in saying that I must admit that I have a deep prejudice against weekend warriors as a whole no matter what they are trying to hunt; center fire, bow or black powder.

If I'm not mistaken Cabelas Hawkins have 1-48 twist barrels.If so try some conical bullets.It varies from one gun to the next but it might shoot better with them vs the round balls plus they're a little easier,quicker to reload.

I think the only time someone mentioned the .54 was to note that it was more effective at longer ranges.

As to giving someone advice with only one hunt, I know I would not have done this. Even though, you still managed to kill the deer. I would call this a success story.

And the subject of weekend warriors, I don't personally know any of these guys that go into the woods with a side lock rifle! This type of person normally would stick with an inline rifle. The idea of them going through the trouble of mastering a sidelock rifle, is foreign to me. When I load up in hunt camp, I can tell you I get a few remarks as to my hunting rifle!!! But I can assure you that if your state would go to a formal traditional hunt, then they would show up with one!

I know I, as do many of my friends, consider primitive hunting rifles a challenge to master. Hence the people that go this extra mile are normally dedicated to the art of this type of hunting.

As usual these are my humble opinions on this matter. Cheers!!! :guiness:

Well guys, I don't think anyone would dispute that that there are more effective projectiles than a patched .50 caliber ball. Bigger balls are more effective. Conicals are more effective. Modern jacketed bullets are more effective. If the guys here were only concerned with ballistic effectiveness we would all be shooting 30-06's.

But let's not lose track of Westtexducks original question, which was;

I believe the simple answer is a .490 ball over 70 grains of triple seven is a 100 yard whitetail killer with a well placed shot.

Back when I used a .45 my charge was 75grs FFF Goex...I tested this load by shooting through a 2x4 at 50 yards...The first deer I ever killed with this muzzleloader was the fall of 1977...I was still hunting down an old railroad bed that runs through a swamp on one of our farms when I noticed a group of does about 50-60 yards away...I took a rest on a cypress tree, picked out a doe, held just behind the shoulder and touched off...My ball took her in the left shoulder, passed through the shoulder blade, spine, right shoulder blade and stopped under the hide on the right side...Of course she dropped...

Through the years I learned to hold lower and killed at least 50 with that .45 and load...I never had any problems with the .45 ball killing deer...Now I also learned not to rely on a heavy blood trail to find my deer...Even today when when I shoot deer with my .243, shotgun, inline, bow or .54 I go to where I last saw the deer, not where they were standing when the shot was taken...As we all know, deer do not always start leaving a blood trail at the site of the hit...Typically my deer run 50-75 yards with a lung shot, no matter the weapon...If I need to drop them, I take a high shoulder shot...

If you HAVE to have a deer drop on the spot to find them do not use a roundball (or a PowerBelt)... :) This is also why more powder behind a ball is not always a good idea...They are made of pure lead and flatten easily...More powder simply helps them shoot flatter, not kill more effectively...This has been an ongoing debate I've heard for over 30 years...If you use higher powder charges and shoot a deer real close and you hit a good bone, you're ball probably will not exit...This is also a good reason to hold on the lower third of a deer...The rib bones aren't as tough down there...

At any rate, learn to find deer when you don't have blood, no matter what weapon you use...

I believe the PRB and open sights are a good match. The sights limit the range to what the PRB is effective. Unless you have eyesight from hell.

I see no need for a scope on a gun that shoots a PRB. If your eyesight is getting poor. (ask me about that) Limit your range even more. Get closer. It doesn't seem to limit the hunters in archery season.

All a scope does on a sidelock is let you shoot ranges you shouldn't be.

I respect your opinion but don't totally agree with it. I mostly use my Omega .50 for hunting now and shoot the TC carbine at the range. However, I don't see any problem using a .50 PRB if you stay within the effective range. Like I said in my post. I shot that buck at about 70 yrds with open iron sights. Dropped it where it stood. As for accuracy, I was getting decent groups out to around 75 yrds. (yes, with open sights) I just don't see any problem with that as long as the hunter is capable of taking a clean ethical shot within his and his rifles capabilities. Just my opinion.

OK...OK...So I'm out numbered no less than 8 to 1. But I still have to stand by my convictions. I say try a .45 caliber 240 grain XTP or Gold Dot in a .50 caliber sabot out of that 1:48 inch twist barrel and see how they shoot. I was amazed at how well they shoot. The XTP's are giving me 1 inch groups at 100 yards out of my new 24 inch, 1:48 inch twist rifle, and I don't think anyone here can argue that an XTP will out perform a round ball in every way.

Some states do not allow the use of anything but pure lead projectiles. So be sure your state permits the use of sabots.

As for the .50... it is lethal. Shot placement is critical or you're in for a long tracking job. But that's true about any projectile. I've shot deer with a .50 and it worked just fine, but remember, my shots are normally close. Still if I were shooting a roundball I would rather have a .54 or my .58 caliber.

One of my friends shoots a .45 caliber Shenandoah Traditions rifle, and he shoots roundball. I asked him once if he ever had a problem killing a deer with that rifle.. He told me he shoots them through the heart and the tracking job is always short. So he depends on shot placement.

Another person I hunt with shoots a Traditions Kentucky 1-66 twist .50 caliber. He's shot deer at 100 yards with it and dropped them in their tracks. You'd never convince him that a .50 is not a good caliber. BUT what I am getting at.. is if I had bad experiences with one caliber and a projectile it could make me sour on that no matter how much luck all the other shooters in the woods have with the same thing.

The point is, if you have no confidence with what your shooting... don't shoot it. And I agree a .45 caliber XTP would be a much better projectile then a .50 caliber roundball. But if you don't place either one, the deer will be a long track.

I agree- a saboted pistol round or a conical is almost always going to have better performance than a round ball of less weight (i.e. .45 or .50 cal PRB). However, so much depends on shot placement. I have a friend who only hunts deer with a traditional long bow that he is not accurate with past 20 yards. However.... his average shot is about 7 yards (according to him) - he uses a ground blind and is deadly accurate at close range, pretty much always putting his arrow straight thru the heart. Minimal tracking required.

Therefore I would have to say, even though there are better projectiles out there, a .50 PRB (or even a .45 for that matter) will be very deadly, very quickly given good shot placement.