209 primer change
 

Well, I finally bought a 209 ignition system for my older knight wolverine. And I guess it is right what they say. I used to get 2" groups with 95gr of pyrodex and 240gr XTP. Now with the 209, I am getting 4" at 100 yards. I tried powerbelts, 240gr XTP, 250gr Knight barnes, and combination with 100gr of pellets, 90 to 110gr of loose pyrodex, 90 to 110gr of goex with all bullets. I guess its right that with a hotter primer accuracy can suffer.

RE: 209 primer change
 

2 inches is minor compared to the gun firing every time you pull the trigger

RE: 209 primer change
 

Idon' t think 2' ' difference is acceptable,there must be a better alternative.Cecil at persion bullets has modified a encore/omega breach plug to shoot a .22 hornet shell with a small rifle primer.

RE: 209 primer change
 

I am not happy with it, but will accept it. I sure don' t feel very comfortable at a 100 yard shot now. Do you think I need to go up in powder or down, I worked with 90-100gr of pyrodex.

RE: 209 primer change
 

From what I heard, thats typical, but part of the trade off for having reliability.

RE: 209 primer change
 

I have yet to have a misfire using RWS #11 caps (they call them 1075 caps). But I only shoot loose powder.

RE: 209 primer change
 

I don' t want to go to the expense and trouble of ordering one modified from Cecil
but if T/C would come out with a breech plug to shoot #11 caps in my encore I would get one.I bought a MK 85 the first year they came out and a ruger the first year they came out,still have them and I have never had either one to miss fire using 2 pellets of pyrodex,2 pellets of clean shot or up to 120 grs of pyro and clean shot in either one,I have used the german caps ,remington and others.
Had a knight disc year before last and the blow back was pretty bad,more than I get shooting the ruger and knight using the #11 caps.

RE: 209 primer change
 

According to Ned Roberts in the Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle, the old-timers PREFERRED " weak" caps for target shooting, because they gave better accuracy. I have a primer adapter that allows you to shoot a caplock using small rifle primers instead of caps. One time I was doing some chronographing of a Maxi-ball load in a .45 rifle, and with the primers, extreme velocity variation exceeded 100 FPS! I installed a regular 1/4X28 nipple, and started using CCI No. 11 caps. Extreme variation dropped to 11 FPS with the SAME powder charge and bullet!! This seems to support what you discovered.

RE: 209 primer change
 

I switched my CVA to 209 primers, because I hade a couple misfires with #11`s.
Though I admit the misfires were not fresh loads, they were only a couple of
days old and well taken care of (not been in rain or major temp change).
I dont change my load after each hunt, I use the same load for several days hunting,
provided the weather was good etc.
I havent noticed any change in my groups but if I did I would accept a small loss
of accuracy just to know that baby is gonna go boom when I squeeze the trigger.[&:]

RE: 209 primer change
 

I agree that with the 209' s, misfires don' t seem to happen! Of course, when hunting, this is very important!

RE: 209 primer change
 

I also agree that you have much less of a chance of good accuracy with a hotter primer in reloading centerfires or muzzleloaders. But was hoping for the best. A primer or cap of any type should match its load. In my opinion, #11' s probably do match the ~90gr powder loads. The 209' s are probably too much for even ~150loads. But I would much rather miss or let an animal walk than for a misfire.

I bet the 209' s are like putting a CCI250 primer in a 308Win with Varget. Which I have also stupidly tryed in the past.

RE: 209 primer change
 

Big I have the exact same setup as you. Two years ago I put a 209 kit on my lil Wolverine and I shoot 200gn Red Hots (Barnes) in front of 2 50gn pellets of Pyro and I have gotten nothing but 1.5" -1.75" groups from a bench at 100 yds. Are you swabbin your barrel properly between shots? The lil Wolverine should get much better than 4" and you certainly shouldnt accept that (tho thats realistically ok for most hunting ranges youll be shooting that gun, many guys in shotgun only states are shooting those kinds of numbers!) Is your barrel ok? Any burrs or bad rust/pitted spots in it?

Stoke that stove and " Leter eat!"
RA

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RE: 209 primer change
 

Yes RedAllison, everything is ok with the barrel. I bet 4" is better than 80% of muzzleloaders out there. I really am not asking for advise, just giving an informative post. With muzzleloaders, rifles, pistols, etc, there could be a whole host of issues. Maybe the Winchester primers, maybe too many shots in this barrel. Maybe the humidity. Etc. Thats just shooting.

RE: 209 primer change
 

Someone pointed out on another forum the Remington .410 primers which are 209 but only about 60% of regular 209 strength. I' ve got a brick of those on order locally.

Gamaliel has a good price on them but you would have to pay the derned HAZMAT greed fee. http://www.gamaliel.com/reloading/pr...tshell.htm#top