Scopes?
 

I'd like to scope my new triumph, but don't have alot of money to spend, as this is my first muzzleloader and had to buy all the other goodies!What are some good scopes that won't break the bank?What rings and bases are good?

Konus Pro 3-10x44 is an awesome scope.

nikon pro staff or bushnell trophy are two that come to my head and won't break the bank.

bases and rings have plenty of choices.

Another vote for the Konus Pro. I use the 3x9x32 so I can mount it low.

If you're not hung up on high magnification, the Simmons 4X ProDiamond is a great scope. I have them on four guns and couldn't be happier. They are clear, light weight, compact, tough as nails, and have long eye relief.

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...TOKEN=18138268

Strange you should mention scopes lol. i have been looking for days and i am going to buy a bushnell banner dusk to dawn 3-9x40 200 MZ scope, to mount on my Triumph. there $ 79.00 shipped, this is a 200 BDC scope with 6" of eye relief made for muzzleoaders.the reviews on all the dusk to dawn scopes are excellent.we encounter longer shots here or i would go with the 4x32 simmons pro diamond like SEMISANE mentioned.going to give it a try and if i don't like it i will send it back. Ray

IMO the base and rings are a very important part of the scope package that is often overlooked. I recommend the DNZ one piece mount for TC guns. They are solid and you will have your scope mounted quickly. This is the DNZ EER medium mount on my Pro Hunter. It's the same mount for the Triumph also. Depending on your scope you can choose between the standard mount or EER (extended eye relief) mount.



Check out Natchez Shooters Supply for an affordable scope. They run Simmons on sale all the time and offer factory refurbs also. I had good luck with the Pro Diamond 4x scope Semi mentioned. It handled alot of 3" mag sabot slug loads when it was on my Rem. 870 slug gun without any issues. Here is one example from Natchez. The 44 objective is one of my favorites. :D
http://www.natchezss.com/Category.cf...dTitle=Simmons 3-10x44 ProHunter Riflescope Truplex Reticle Matte

I recommend the DNZ one piece mount for TC guns. and any good steel rings.I also recommend Nikon or Bushnell MZ scopes. I like what most consider very heavy loads and have wiped out a number of scopes with recoil including some of the brands other people recommend. I have shot some of my Bushnell and Nikon scopes for many years and never had a problem. The Bushnell Banner Dawn to dusk MZ scope and the two Nikon MZ scopes are my first choices for reliability.

Is is just personal preferance as far as scope mount height? I see DNZ has low ,medium and high scope mounts!

Medium works well as you can see on Omegas rifle. Ray

Too each his own. Personally I would stay away from the DNZ mounting system. Especially with a cheaper scope. One of the things you give up with a cheap scope is good eye relief. Normally you only get a full field of view at one postition, and with little lee-way either forward or backward. And the DNZ system allows for ZERO adjustment going foreward or backward if you need a little space. And the second problem with them is the distance is also too close between the rings. That puts more weight out on the ends of the scope, and increases the harmonics of the scope.

Personally I like either the Warne or the EABCO base. It is a Picatinney style that allows for substantial adjustment. Forward and back. As well as allowing you to set the rings farther apart, which is an inherently stronger system. I guarantee you either the Warne or EABCO is every bit as strong, and probably stronger(because you can put the rings farther apart) than the DNZ.

I have seen more than a couple of guys have problems with the DNZ on Encore's. Especially when using a cheaper scope with less eye relief.

Below is a picture of the EABCO and the Warne. Look at how much adjustment you have, and how much longer the base is.

Personally I can not give a good recommendation on the cheaper scopes. I believe you get what you pay for. Tom.

Below is a picture of the Leupold dual dovetail system. Which is also a very strong system. It is mounted on an Encore MZ barrel in the picture. However I took off the mounts. It is just too short-Like the DNZ. Tom.

Below is a picture comparing the Warne to the Leupold in length(about the same size as DNZ). It is easy to notice how much longer the Warne is. And substantially more adjustment. Tom.

That is why DNZ makes to different bases. standard for standard eye relief and the EER for longer eye relief. if one does his home work prior to buying either the scope or bases, it works out well.

How would you possibly know what your eye relief adjustment is going to be until you mounted both the base, rings, and scopes on the rifle?? Then you check your eye box on your scope to your eye. It would be impossible to know that in advance. But stil you only have two options.

And that still does nothing to address the fact that the DNZ system is to close between the rings.

I am not knocking your system. It is a very strong system as you pointed out. However I always like to err on the side of more adjustment when dealing with scopes and rifles-not less. Just an opinion. Tom.

Aren't those konus scopes on cva and fairly new.I think I would stick to a bushnell or NIKON if your on a budget.

Ever used a DNZ. If not I would not knock it till you tried it. To each his own.....whatever!

Well first off the fellow that started the thread ask for a reasonable priced set up as his spending money was about used up for the time being.
Second I never had any problem figuring which set up to recommend once we had the rifle and scope in hand is very simple geometry, I did it for years when I owned half of a gun shop.

Konus has been around since the early 1970's. I guess CVA got tired of the Bushnell quality and went to Konus.


The Konus Pro, what i have is really darn clear. Some on my forum compared the clarity to a Leupold.

I guess CVA should.....never mind !!

Optics Planet has a nice selection of scopes,once you choose your brand,the only other suggestion I would have is to get something with good eye relief.Also as stated get a nice base and rings.There are tons of scopes out there,it will come down to what you can afford and what you like.

Steve

Regarding the scope - Until the Vortex Viper 2-7x32 is no longer on closeout, I will keep recommending it at the best deal out there. At $149, nothing less than 200 bucks comes close.

I looked at them and the eye relief wasn't long enough for me. Vortex is the best buy in binoculars and spotting scopes on the market today. world class warranty and crystal clear optics. there products cost far less than the other big name optic brands with better glass. i almost fell over when my $200.00 8x42 diamond backs showed up at my door.. all i can say is WOW!!!! Ray

My next scope purchase will probably be either this Vortex.
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/v...ondback4-12x40

Or this Zeiss
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunti...3Bcat104535180

Both are not what I consider affordable scopes. I believe the origional poster was given alot of affordable scope options. The Simmons 4X probably IMO being the best bang for your buck if you do not need higher magnification.
http://www.natchezss.com/Category.cf...dTitle=Simmons 4x32 ProDiamond Riflescope ProDiamond Reticle Matte

Not really iawalleyeguy. There are a number of mechanical reasons involved.

Generally speaking, the closer the mid-line of the scope is to the mid-line of the barrel the better things will be from a ballistic/trajectory standpoint. However, low mounts often won't work with a scope that has a large objective lens (scope hits barrel). Sometimes, if you want to leave the iron sights on a barrel you need higher mounts for the scope to clear the sights. Sometimes, depending on the stock configuration and facial structure of the shooter one particular height is slightly more comfortable than another. Then there's an issue with some muzzleloaders (such at the TC Omega) where extra room between the rear of the scope and the breech makes inserting the primer easier.

The Diamond back is the way to go and i agree on the 4x pro diamond scope,especiall if one lives in the part of the country where close in shots are the norm. i just prefer the 3-9x44's myself (brings them in closer):happy0001: i also wanted to try a BDC scope on the Triumph.. Ray

Semi is right about looking at a fixed power scope. If you are budget conscious then you probablty can buy a higher quality fixed power scope instead of a lesser quality variable. What exactly is your budget?? I have seen some pretty good condition fixed 4X Leupolds for about $125 or so. That would get you a great scope with a lifetime warranty that is worth something. The fixed 4X Weaver is also a pretty decent scope. Tom.

My "budget" scope is a Bushnell Banner Dusk to Dawn in 3-9x40mm I have 4 of them and have yet to break them. Very clear and all I need for the <100 yard shots I have around here.

Exactly why i bought one after reading many reviews on them.:happy0001: anxious to see how the BDC works out also :wave: Ray

i have a weaver k4 4x. it was on a .308 and .270. and sits now on my omega. im next gonna buy a 1-3x20 weaver. i think its $160. dont need a lot of magnification for 200 yards. used this scope on my .270 for 300 got a 3 inch group and it was where i wanted it.

Nikon Omega is my choice for $200.00 scope or less. Super clear scope. Fast target acquisition. 5 inch eye relief (Your eyes have no price tag). And can smoke small targets out to 200 yards.

We have been successfully taking ground hogs at 125 to 150 yards with my Omega muzzy and and nikon scope.

We got three last night directly where we placed the crosshairs.

100 grains of BH
TC shockwave or Hornady xtp (240gr for both).

Spend a few extra bucks so you wont have to change out scopes if you change your hunting paterns or move locations. Blue locktite and forget.

Here is one pic of a ground hog my son shot with the t/c at 125 yards. The kid is an awesome shot.

He hits a pie plate at 200 yards and acts like its texing a friend on a cell phone. Kids have those beautiful young eyes...lol


D

:cool2:, hope mine stays interested in muzzle loaders, when he reaches that age! Ray

I know you are on a budget, but how tight of a budget? Are we talking $50 here, or $250?

That being said, if it was me I'd go with a set of quality Weaver style bases and Burris Signature Zee rings with the inserts. These rings are the best I've tried under $100. I love them. They seem to be strong and well made, plus the eliminate any need for lapping the scope rings, and they don't leave ring marks. If you have any alignment issues, you can also solve them with these rings. They just really are great for the $30 they cost. I've used some of the cheaper $10-12 Weaver aluminum rings and there is absolutely no comparison. The Burris rings are well worth the extra money if you can swing it. If you absolutely can't swing $30 for a set of rings, I guess I'd go with the Weaver Quad Locks, but I'd really try to get the Burris rings.

I don't have the Burris rings on my muzzle loader, but I have them on other guns, and if I ever replace the rings on my muzzle loader I will go with the Burris rings. I currently use the Weaver steel strap style rings on my muzzle loader and they are very strong and seem to work well. The problem with them is they are a pita to install as they turn the scope when you tighten them down. So it takes a lot of patience and practice to get the crosshairs level. They also leave ring marks, and the price isn't that much cheaper than the Burris rings.

As for a scope, there are lots of options depending on your price range. I've never used one of the Konus scopes mentioned earlier in this thread, but I have a friend that has 2 of them and he likes them.

The biggest issue I've seen with cheaper scopes is that often they don't track accurately. That really isn't such a big deal on a muzzle loader as you aren't going to be making adjustments in the field.

As much as I'm embarrassed to admit it, I personally use a $30 Tasco Bucksight 3-9x40 scope on mine that they sell at Walmart. I bought it as I wanted something cheap to just see how I liked muzzle loading and it's never given me any reason to change it. I've been using it for about 3.5 years now with great luck and the glass is surprisingly decent for $30. I had one other one on a centerfire rifle, but only for 2 months while I had a Leupold sent in for service. I then sold it. It worked well too. I'm not sure if I just got lucky, or if overall they were pretty decent scopes.

This gun has worked so well for me I hate to change anything on it unless I have to.

That being said, that's my cheapest scope I own and even though it's never given me any trouble I sometimes worry about it failing since so many people talk bad about Tasco's. If I was to do it again knowing how much I like muzzle loading I'd probably go ahead and buy something more like a Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40, or I'd probably actually go for the new Burris E1 3-9x40. IMO if you aren't constantly dialing on the turrets, it's about the best scope I've used in the price range.

If you can't pay for that, but want something more than a cheaper Tasco or Simmons, you can still get the older Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40 with the regular reticle for $100 last I checked at Cabela's. I had one of these and it was a decent scope. The turrets were pretty bad on it, but they worked fine to sight it in and leave it. The glass was decent, but not great. I saw some chromatic aberration, and the glass wasn't anywhere near the quality of the Burris FFII, but it was decent. I found it identical glass wise to the Simmons I replaced with it. However, the glass was plenty good enough for most all hunting situations. The biggest thing it had going for it was it seemed very durable, and never lost zero even through some abuse. It seems like a bargain for $100, but for it's normal price of $160 or so, I think you can get much better options.

Another great buy that probably is the best buy going right now is the Vortex Viper 2-7x32 that's on clearance if it fits your needs for a scope. It's also a great scope with a great warranty, at a great price.

As for the Simmons Pro Diamond, I've never used it, but I have used 2 Simmons scopes both their cheaper ones, one a Deerfield, and one a Blazer and I've had good luck with both of them despite what many others say about them. Now, neither were on a muzzle loader, but one was one a .22 and one on a centerfire and neither gave me any trouble. One tracked great, and the other not so much, but they both held zero once sighted in and they had pretty decent glass.

I just have mixed feelings on the cheap scopes, I've never really had any problems with them, and the large majority of my hunting buddies use cheap scopes under $100 and they hardly ever have problems, but at the same time I read so much bad online about them, it makes me hesitate to trust them even though I've never had any personal experiences make me doubt them. I've found by spending more you can often get better glass, but for the most part it's been very small subtle differences you really had to look for, and I've found that often times the higher priced scopes have more repeatable adjustments, but for durability I've not really had a problem with the cheaper stuff.

The only cheap scope I had that I felt was a total POS was a Bushnell. The thing tracked horribly, you had to tap the scope after making adjustments for it to settle, the glass looked fuzzy around the edges and had a lot of glare, and while it did hold zero, if you bumped it hard by knocking it over, dropped it, etc it would always shift the POI. The rest of the cheap scopes I've had have worked well.


So, it really all depends on exactly how much you want to spend as to what we'd recommend to you.

Depending on the kind of shots you will encounter... In my case, most shots a 50 yards or under. If I hunt a hay field section ... 100-150 yards tops.

When I wanted to scope my White Model 97. I went to a gun shop about 50 miles away. The owner and I are good friends (due to the business I do there). I told him I wanted a good hunting scope. I never mentioned money. I said it had to be tough, solid, with a good guarantee. Also the quality of the scope as very important. He suggested a Nikon Pro Staff 2-7x32mm. He told me the glass was excellent, they gather light better then a 40mm, for hunting, where I don't take running shots, I will never notice the difference between the 40mm. Also, he said he sells a lot of them and never gets them back in trade, or for repair. He was right on all counts.. the Pro Staff is under $150.00 and just a great scope.

A scope I put on my Black Diamond XR for fun (because we were not allowed scoped during muzzleloader season a few years back) was a Bushnell Banner Dusk to Dawn 1.5-4.5x32mm scope. I like to target shoots. BUT for the $69.00 I paid for that scope, it is just a great scope. Excellent clarity, easy to focus, gathers light better then my Simmons cheap Binoculars, has never lost its POA, and do far after hundreds of shots.. tough as nails. For a cheap scope, the Dusk to Dawn are hard to beat. This one has 4 inches of eye relief which is plenty.

I also have Simmons 4x32 Pro Diamond scopes on a number of rifles. These $39.99 scopes have taken a lot of abuse and still hold true. They have good glass, and personally I like them. If your shots are 100 yards and under, these scopes would do the job until you save money for a real expensive scope that will do no better job.

The bushnell dusk to dawn came in today, fit and finish is excellent. the glass is as clear as my nikon buckmaster. i used bushnell scopes for years prior to switching to Nikon. i like the BDC reference points on this scope, small and they don't clutter up everything.looked up the BDC chart online and it looks like 100-110 loose with a good .250 gr bullet zeroed at 100 yds should give me the correct POI at 150 and 200 yds.waiting on the DNZ base 7 rings to come in,so i can mount it and give it a try. also waiting on some paint i ordered to do a DIY (natural gear) camo paint job on the Triumph..i hate the hurry up and wait mode :happy0001:

I always used Leupold scopes on CF rifles.

I'm not sure why I don't feel a need to put an expensive scope on a ML, but I seem to feel that way. The Konus Pro scope is all I need for a ML. It's actually a pretty nice scope. (so far)

Was at Gander today and I came across this Thompson center 3x9x40 scope for 49.99. http://cgi.ebay.com/Thompson-Center-...-/310296238682

When I took it out of the box I was surprised by its quality. Its clarity was great and reminded me of the feel of my Nikon omega. It also has about 5 inches of eye relief. The scope rings and mount fit the tc line of muzzleloaders but feel very cheap. I would not mount them on my gun.

Sad to say...another scope followed me home.:confused0024:


D

A hunting buddy put one of those on his gun last year. He had a Tasco 3-9x50 from Walmart and sighted it in initially, and then he shot a couple of deer with it. Last year he took it hunting, and missed a deer, then shot one, then missed another. He said he thought the scope wasn't holding POI and he didn't like Tasco anyway so he didn't even shoot it at paper, he just went and bought another scope and got that TC. This guy normally doesn't miss as even though he rarely shoots at paper, when it comes to deer, I hardly ever see him miss. He is one of the best shots in this area, when it comes to hitting deer that are running. Being that he didn't really check into it more though makes me wonder if the scope really was bad, or if something else was going on. He seems to really like the T/C scope at least so far.

Vortex Diamondback 3x9x40. Great products from this company with a warranty that is unbeatable. Clear and crisp from edge to edge. Great value for the buck!!!