Hornady XTPS
 

Can someone please explain this to me. Whats the difference between the reg XTPS and XTP MAG. I've been shooting the mags, but the reg are alittle cheaper. Cant seem to find any info on Hornady's website. Also anybody use the 240 XTP MAGS. Did alittle reading last night and alot of people have had the same results like me. The 300 just pass through and the game runs off a few or more yards. Yet the people that use 240 grains it stops them in thier tracks. Alot of people think its the fpe. Too much that the 300 grain takes the enegry with it while the 240 transfers the enegry to the deer. There is a hugh price difference. So if the 240 works good for deer I may buy those bullets for plunking and deer hunting and save the more expensive 300 for elk. But that would depend on how they shoot and if i could adj my scope to shoot both. Also anyone use a lead cast 300 grain wade cutter? I can buy those from a local cast at 25 dollars a hundred or $100 for five hundred rounds. I wouldn't think my barrel would lead up due to sabot. Sorry for the long post I hope I kept your attention through it.

The magnum is designed for higher velocity. I used the lead bullets for my first inlines they killed the deer, I cast my own to get the right alloy so they would expand, some cast out of very hard lead for target shooting do not expand and will pencil through a deer and the deer will run much longer. The main draw back I found with the lead bullets was a problem getting the to shoot accurate with more than 90 or 100 gr, at the time I was using Pyrodex RS, the faster strong powder may be more limited than that.

My understand of the difference is the way the two bullets are made. The magnum are supposed to hold together better and take a larger powder charge. The standard will get the job done though. I heard they expand better and one draw back... they may not give you a pass through.

Let me first state.. I have never killed a deer with a sabot/xtp. My friend who shoots a Bighorn started out with the 240 grain standard XTP and 85 grains of powder and dropped deer where they stood. He said the wound channel was impressive. He then started testing the 300 grain standard XTP with the same powder charge. As he explained to me... when they expand they really do damage and the deer never go far and bleed real well. So I started shooting the standard 300 grain XTP because I like bigger bullets and they are so accurate in most rifles.. I just ordered 200 more of them, so I must like them. And one of these deer seasons, I will leave my roundball rifles behind and actually use these fancy inline rifles.

As stated I would switch to the standard and not use the Mag.They are for faster speeds then you will see out of your Muzzle loader.I asked Hornady the same thing a while back and got a great responce from them,wish I saved it to copy it for you.But you get the speed idea.They are actually two different style bullets on the nose of it.I have noticed them along with every other bullet going up in price.Try Graffs,wholesale hunter or even Cabelas.

I was going to use the .452 300gr XTP this year as my hunting round but I am going to stick to ole faithfull 350gr FPB.

Steve

The 240 grain XTP are what I shoot. I hit a doe 2 years ago with one at about 40 yards and she dropped where she stood with it being pushed by 83 grains of fffg Goex. I just sighted in my 21 inch Green Mountain carbine with the 300 grain but I'm only pushing it with 70 grains fffg Goex. Time will tell how that works on a deer because the barrel is new.

When you say 240 grain, are they .45 caliber, .452" bullets, or are they .44 caliber .430" bullets? Hornady makes both XTP's. I use the .44 caliber 240 gr. XTP's, with geen Hornady sabots .50/.44, and have taken several deer with them. As always, shot placement is the key.

My hunting buddy and I both use the .429 Hornady XTPS...He uses the 240, I use the 300...His gun likes 85grs 777, I use 80grs Goex FFF...We both use the Harvester plain green sabots...

We both kill deer, very little difference...I may get a few more pass throughs but it really doesn't matter as they don't go far...I'd say 75% drop within sight...

Gents,

I was reading the posts and thinking about all my muzzleloader deer over the years. It occured to me that I have never shot a deer with anything other than a XTP! This is not to say that I havent tried them all. In fact I have approximately 8 different bullets in my range box right now. I have hunted with other bullets numerous times. It has just always happened that every time I took a shot, I happen to have loaded an XTP that day. (Semisane has got to have a theory about that one!)

My go to XTP is typically a 44 caliber, 300 grain bullet with the green MMP sabot. The first box I bought was the bullet-sabot combo pack. After that I always bought the bullets and sabots sepeerately becasue they are so economical. I have read that the thicker sabot (i.e. smaller bullet) combinations are not quite as accurate as bullets closer to the bore size. I don't know if this is true because I have not experienced that phenominon. I actually shot my farthest deer with this bullet. It was a doe at exactly 100 yards. It was a complete pass through with a sizeable wound channel. I recall the powder was 100 grains of T7. I use BH209 almost exclusively now, but have found the same accuracy results.

This year I got a nice buck at about 30 yards down in a river bottom. This time I happened to be using a 375 caliber 325 grain XTP over 100 grains of BH209. For the first time I was slightly disappointed. The ephasis is on the word slightly. I did not get a pass through. The lethality was as good as always. However I think at that range the velocity exceeded the design intent of the bullet. This is not Hornady's fault. In a perfect world, and hunting in the same spot, I might reduce the charge to about 85 grains. I suspect this would result in the bullet holding together better to give me the pass through I want.

I should note that the 375 caliber XTP's were a find in the bargain cave at Kabula's.

Those bullets are all gone now. I suspect I will go back to the 44/300 grain version this fall.

Finally I would say that I am really anxious to try the new Bloodline bullets from Knight/Lehigh. One thing is for sure: it is a whole lot of fun trying all the different combinations in the muzzleloaders. I hardly ever shot cartridge rifles anymore! :o)

Right now I'm using the 300 XTP MAG. Just didn't know if the reg XTP would hold together. Might have to switch now. Maybe I'll email hornady too and ask them.

But are you using the .429s or .451s???

(Are the sabots green or black)???

.452 dia with the Harvester Crushed Rib Sabot

That 240gr in .452 is dang short...I know some that do use the 250gr in .452...

The 240gr XTP in .429 has been used since the beginning of the inlines and has done very well...The reason I went to the .429 in 300 gr is because of the great ballistic coefficient...It's very close to the 250gr SST which I used for a few years...I wanted that higher coefficient for hunting over our soybean fields down east but also wanted to move to a hollow point design to help the bullet open up...At the lower powder charges my gun likes the SST didn't expand well on lung shots...

Now...The .452 300gr XTP also has a great following..One is a fellow up the road in Greensboro...This is the guy that invented the smokeless design that Savage picked up...It's his bullet of choice and he tests it in eastern NC and makes shots over 200 yards with it...Even at higher velocities he still prefers this bullet over the Mag version...

Any of these 3 (4 if you count the .425 250gr) will do a good job...The .429s are just a bit more streamlined and in my case my rifle groups the .429 300gr best...That's another reason I use it... :)

I have used both the .44 and the .45 cal. 240gr. Hornady XTP with great success in the field. Good accuracy, too. They work excellent on deer as long as you do your part with good shot placement.

I have not used the 300gr. XTP so I can't comment on them.

I've shot all of them (44 and 45 cal ones) at one point or another.

My experience is that:

• .430 300g are more accurate than the .452 300g
• .452 300g (non-mag) are great if you shoot longer distance as the bullet will open up nicely at lower velocity
• .452 300g MAG are great for close range shooting. If you don't shoot more than 50 yards and you want a tough bullet to shoot through brush or through shoulder blades. This is what you are after.
• .452 240g MAG is an excellent deer killer.
• .452 250g performs about the same as the 240g MAG in my opinion.

Hope this helps. My favorite two are the .452 240g MAG and the .430 300g

I used the 250 and 240 gr XTP for years then Sabotloader talked me into trying the Gold Dots, I really like the 250gr Deep Curl [What they used to call a Gold Dot ] and the 300gr is excellent for Elk. I never looked back I still have about 4 boxes of 250gr XTP to fall back on if I should happened to run out of Deep Curls.

[QUOTE=nchawkeye;3816936]The 240gr XTP in .429 has been used since the beginning of the inlines and has done very well...The reason I went to the .429 in 300 gr is because of the great ballistic coefficient...It's very close to the 250gr SST which I used for a few years...I wanted that higher coefficient for hunting over our soybean fields down east but also wanted to move to a hollow point design to help the bullet open up...At the lower powder charges my gun likes the SST didn't expand well on lung shots...

NCHawkeye, do you have BC data on the .429 300 gr XTP's?

50calty

I have hesitated providing any input in this thread, but since it is still out here and growing thought I might.

I am assuming that you have your questions about the regular XTP and the XTP Mag answered and they have provided you with a visual method to identify them.

I KNOW that XTP's probably have harvested more animals than any other bullet available in the US. When I first started shooting ML's I started using XTP's cheap readily available... even though the little voice in my head warned me no to go there.

When I was a centerfire hunter I tried Hornady brand bullets in my 270 and 300 Win mag and quicky learned there are better bullets available. Often, but not always, when shooting with the 270 or Win Mag - I would find the bullets separated. I would find the copper just inside the hide and the moved on through doing its thing. Sometimes staying together and getting good penetration other times fragmenting in pieces. At that point I switched to Noslers Partitions never looked back. I continued to shoot Hornady and other copper lead bullets at paper but not at animals.

When I moved to ML's - I found the same problem continued to haunt the Hornady line... except the 40-200 grain XTP - I have not got it to separate yet.

A few years ago I set out to test my thoughts on the XTP's after I found a separated bullet in a deer.

Here is an example...



This was designed as a torture test. You can see see some XTP's separated some didn't. I can not even tell you that a majority of them separted, but some did which created a doubt in my mind everytime I would shoot one...

Then when Speer brought out the Gold Dot, now called a Deep Curl (for American court ruling). When I read about the bullet they stated that the bullet was bonded and expansion was controlled internally... To me they proved to be a 'Poor Man's' Nosler Partition.

I repeated the torture test on the Gold Dots/Deep Curls...

Here are the results of one of those tests into the same medium that I shot the XTP's



I, unlike Lee, have very few XTP's left in the collection...

Nothing scientific in any of this but enough to know which bullet I would use if given the option.

Both my hunting buddies use the .429 XTP 240 grain non-mag version. They've probably taken 30 - 40 deer with this bullet in the past 10 years. It has worked well for them. I have no doubt that there are more advanced bullets out there, but the XTP does get the job done. The price is right too. I can't remember any instances of bullet failure at with the powder charges they were using (80 - 90 grains T7). Most deer were boom-flops or were recovered within a short distance. Pass-thru's were achieved about 50% of the time depending on a number of factors. There were a couple instances of losing deer or long tracking required - all that I can recall were due to poor shot placement. Again, no matter what bullet you use, shot placement is key.

I have had good luck with the .40 cal 200 XTP, but recently have been using the 200 SST more often.

The BC on all these is on Hornady's website...The .430 in 300gr is .245...

Of the 3 that I shot with this bullet last year, 2 dropped, one was to a high shoulder shot...One I hit right on the elbow, the bullet shatter the leg and heart and he 2 wheeled for maybe 10 steps...

As far as a bullet fragmenting...I've seen this in several other bullets as well, both muzzleloading and centerfires...Those fragments destroy tissue as well...The worse bullet I ever used was a .243 100gr Remington Premium that bullet would pass through and leave a hole the size of a nickle...Deer ran on lungs shots 125-150 yards...With a plain jane CoreLokt, they usually run 30-60 yards with the same lung shots...

XTPs are plenty tough for any whitetail you'll run across...Especially if you stick with velocities in the 1600-1900 range...Many of us don't care for ultra high velocities, just isn't necessary...

nchawkeye

Gotta admit I am a velocity-trajectory person, so I am shooting them with a stiff load, even the Speers are shot with the same load.

I also know in the normal situation my shots on average my shots would be around 60 yards, but I also want to be prepared for the the possible 200 yard on an elk or deer.

This cow was shot at an extended range and I am glad that I had the velocity and a bullet that would do the job.



This deer was harvested @ 120 yards and the bullet and load worked very well there also



Neither of these shots did I wonder if the bullet might come apart...

I know XTP's have a loyal following and that is fine - but IMO there are much better bullets on the market now.

The 240 grain .430 XTP bullet has killed about 20 deer and a few hundred wild hogs for me. Put the bullet where it is supposed to go and it does a fine job. Shoot them in the guts with any bullet and your are in for a chase.

The only problem ive had with the XTP is that it has not performed consistently on media tests. Sometimes it does fine and other times it comes apart. Even the 475-325gr was not consistent and its a big bullet.

In all honesty on game, i never had a problem except with the XTP mags. On a couple of kills expansion appeared to be minimal but without a heart or lungs left intact didn't matter much.

GoldDots/DeepCurls on the other hand have been very consistent and the price is close enough to XTPs. Accuracy has been as good or better, so i see no reason to buy XTPs IF i can buy GD/DCs instead.

When the buck of a life time comes in view of my crosshairs, i dont want to worry about "what ifs" or be forced to wait for the perfect broadside presentation. Although i usually do wait for a nice broadside shot which im pretty sure will take out the heart and pass through. A humane kill at a variety of reasonable shot presentations, impact velocities and ranges is at the top of my list when i hunt.

IMO the GD/DC fills these requirements in the "affordable" bullet category better than most other brands.

I have a box of Deep Curls that I'm going to play with. Also I was able to get about 20 rounds of .45 cast bullets. They are 300 grain with the dia of .452 in a Semi Wade Cutter. Going to see what happens. If the cast bullets work good. I can buy 500 hundred for 100 bucks.

Cost is one reason i am moving toward the pure conical shooting, that and it's just a lot of fun. quite challenging also. Ray

To each his own of course, but I hunted entirely with Deep Curls last year and while it's only 1 year's experience, I was not impressed by them enough to choose them over XTPs.

In fact, 1 deer I found zero blood. Another I only found a few spots about the size of #4 shot. Of course they killed the deer, but it wasn't a dramatic improvemnt over XTPs that I was told to expect.

One word, Barnes

I won't argue with that!:wave: Ray

It's our only hope in Colorado.

Unless we want to hunt the rifle season with all the idiots.

Thats why I like sabots. You can play and play all day long with bullets. However I don't have a muzzleloader season. I would probably be willing to give up the sabots for a muzzleloader season. But I know that Montana will never go for a Muzzleloader Season. Hell the got rid of all the late hunts 6 years ago. Doubt they change for a muzzleloader.

I am using a M/L this rifle season. i drew a tag near my home that borders the Joshua Tree National park in Zone D12 which is a late hunt (opens first saturday in November). most hunt the big burro deer down by the colorado river, which rut early.here in the part of D12 i live near there in full swing rut:cool2:the season runs 3 weeks.. i have a OLD TIMER friend that has a bad ticker, i will take along. he's hunted here for many years. i probably won't even get serious about scouting and trail cams until mid September.the bucks will be roaming out of the Park looking for hot does that time of year:s1: Ray