Will There be more bolt actions ML's in the future?
LOL
05-29-2011, 07:59 PM
#22
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,917
Other than shooting my brother-in-law's Knight MK-85, I've played around with only one other bolt action muzzle loader - the Rescued Remington. It was a nice gun, but I just couldn't take a liking to it. That MK-85 shoots great but it's not for me.
I have the break open Lyman Mustang that has a sliding tang safety and no exposed hammer - a very user friendly system like the old top lever single shot shotguns. But I could never get anything more than decent hunting accuracy from it. It's a keeper, but no target rifle.
I also have the Omega X7 which in my view is the perfect in-line - very short action, one piece stock, simple action, very easy cleaning. I have no problem with the exposed hammer. I kind of like hammer guns. My two main cartridge guns are Browning single shots with falling block actions and exposed hammers that need to be c0cked to shoot.
I have the break open Lyman Mustang that has a sliding tang safety and no exposed hammer - a very user friendly system like the old top lever single shot shotguns. But I could never get anything more than decent hunting accuracy from it. It's a keeper, but no target rifle.
I also have the Omega X7 which in my view is the perfect in-line - very short action, one piece stock, simple action, very easy cleaning. I have no problem with the exposed hammer. I kind of like hammer guns. My two main cartridge guns are Browning single shots with falling block actions and exposed hammers that need to be c0cked to shoot.
Last edited by Semisane; 05-29-2011 at 08:17 PM.
05-29-2011, 09:50 PM
#23
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 428
after putting the lehigh breech plug in all my knights theres little to clean my actions are very clean after 40 rounds and teflon tap on the breech plug very little to clean on the gun know love it and have one of the old school super dics 45 cal 1-20 twist got it in 1990 shoots as good today as first day and over 5000 rounds on it
05-30-2011, 04:15 AM
#24
Fork Horn
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Up State NY
Posts: 226
I have shot the bolts,break opens and drop breach style.
First the bolt was a Rem 700 ML,shot very nice just didn't like the bolt.Then it was a NEF Heritage ML break open.That was my go to gun for many years.Very simple to clean with a MU plug and accurate.This season she is taking a break.
I then found a Omega X7 {should have bought two of them} and like Semi said,it sure seems like the perfect ML.Accurate and easy to clean with the drop out action.
All in all the three style's keep the industry going even in hard times,with the price of Hawkens and the likes in-lines are getting more popular, plus with the extended seasons in most states in-line sales should be on the rise.
TC,Knight and even CVA can only innovate so much on a ML.
Shooting muzzle loaders is a blast !!
Steve
First the bolt was a Rem 700 ML,shot very nice just didn't like the bolt.Then it was a NEF Heritage ML break open.That was my go to gun for many years.Very simple to clean with a MU plug and accurate.This season she is taking a break.
I then found a Omega X7 {should have bought two of them} and like Semi said,it sure seems like the perfect ML.Accurate and easy to clean with the drop out action.
All in all the three style's keep the industry going even in hard times,with the price of Hawkens and the likes in-lines are getting more popular, plus with the extended seasons in most states in-line sales should be on the rise.
TC,Knight and even CVA can only innovate so much on a ML.
Shooting muzzle loaders is a blast !!
Steve
05-30-2011, 04:51 AM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
Back in the 1900's i used to hunt with a center fire rifle. Elk is what we hunted mostly, but sometimes antelope, and if a deer happened by, we killed it. I always wanted to carry a lever action with an exposed hammer. I've always preferred an exposed hammer. The lever action guns of the day with the exposed hammer weren't really chambered for Elk cartridges, so i continued carrying bolt action rifles with 'safeties'.
Our son decided to start packing a 30-30. He killed several elk with it, and ended up losing a few. He soon gave that up.
Today, i only hunt with a muzzle loader. One reason, is mine don't have 'long' actions, because there is no bolt. My hunting rifles have 24" barrels, and are inches shorter than my bolt action rifle with a 22" barrel. We always hunted elk in thick timber, and my short light muzzle loader would have been a perfect elk rifle.
Today i only hunt with a muzzle loader. One reason is because my rifles all have exposed hammers. Exposed rebounding hammers make me happy. I like the way they look. I like the way they work. When not pulled back, they don't make contact with the firing pin, and are blocked from making contact with the firing pin. The only way the exposed rebounding hammer can make contact with the firing pin, is iff the trigger is pulled back. If the hammer isn't pulled back i can see that it isn't. If the hammer is pulled back it is visibly ready to fire.
Back in the 1900's an exposed hammer wasn't so safe, because they relied on the 'half cooked' notch to keep it away from the firing pin. One could pull the trigger when the hammer was in half cook. More than once i saw guns carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber or cylinder. Them old guns aren't near as safe as the newer guns with rebounding hammers.
Modern muzzle loader rifles with exposed rebounding hammers are short, light, safe, accurate, and my choice for packing whilst hunting.
Our son decided to start packing a 30-30. He killed several elk with it, and ended up losing a few. He soon gave that up.
Today, i only hunt with a muzzle loader. One reason, is mine don't have 'long' actions, because there is no bolt. My hunting rifles have 24" barrels, and are inches shorter than my bolt action rifle with a 22" barrel. We always hunted elk in thick timber, and my short light muzzle loader would have been a perfect elk rifle.
Today i only hunt with a muzzle loader. One reason is because my rifles all have exposed hammers. Exposed rebounding hammers make me happy. I like the way they look. I like the way they work. When not pulled back, they don't make contact with the firing pin, and are blocked from making contact with the firing pin. The only way the exposed rebounding hammer can make contact with the firing pin, is iff the trigger is pulled back. If the hammer isn't pulled back i can see that it isn't. If the hammer is pulled back it is visibly ready to fire.
Back in the 1900's an exposed hammer wasn't so safe, because they relied on the 'half cooked' notch to keep it away from the firing pin. One could pull the trigger when the hammer was in half cook. More than once i saw guns carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber or cylinder. Them old guns aren't near as safe as the newer guns with rebounding hammers.
Modern muzzle loader rifles with exposed rebounding hammers are short, light, safe, accurate, and my choice for packing whilst hunting.
05-30-2011, 05:20 AM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
Break action Muzzleloaders are here to stay. The main reason why is they are just plain simple. And with a ML the odds of wearing out or loosing up are very slim.
As far as safety, the exposed hammer gun has had more accidental fires then any other design ever made. More so from unloading holding the trigger then releasing the hammer. Knight Rifles has this already figured out, and hopefully changes a few things on the vision and starts testing them this year.
Those looking for break opens really only have two good safe options right now. The first choice is a T/C Triumph. The second is a Knight Vision. The Triumph is great right out of the box, and the Vision needs a little tweaking for most.
As far as safety, the exposed hammer gun has had more accidental fires then any other design ever made. More so from unloading holding the trigger then releasing the hammer. Knight Rifles has this already figured out, and hopefully changes a few things on the vision and starts testing them this year.
Those looking for break opens really only have two good safe options right now. The first choice is a T/C Triumph. The second is a Knight Vision. The Triumph is great right out of the box, and the Vision needs a little tweaking for most.
05-30-2011, 05:52 AM
#28
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
There are many view points, mine is that I do not want any one walking behind me with a loaded gun that needs two safeties to be safe. I have shot and hunted all my life and i am pushing 75 years old and the only accident that has happened was from a hammerless gun that the sear slipped on when the action was closed, since it was pointed in a safe direction the only result was the gun being junked. i just can not imagine fooling around with two safeties with an alert buck standing 15 yards in front of me. If you do not use it what good is it?
05-30-2011, 06:40 AM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Yucca Valley,Ca
Posts: 2,496
05-30-2011, 06:52 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
There are many view points, mine is that I do not want any one walking behind me with a loaded gun that needs two safeties to be safe. I have shot and hunted all my life and i am pushing 75 years old and the only accident that has happened was from a hammerless gun that the sear slipped on when the action was closed, since it was pointed in a safe direction the only result was the gun being junked. i just can not imagine fooling around with two safeties with an alert buck standing 15 yards in front of me. If you do not use it what good is it?