Omega Primers?
 

If i'm not mistaken. They came out with ML primers, because the stronger 209 primers were moving the powder before igniting it.

So, the Omega has no problem shooting BH 209, and it doesn't need a magnum primer like other breech plugs. All i've used are the CCI 209m primers.

Can I get more accuracy by using a softer primer? Not a ML primer, but one of the 209 primers that's on the bottom of the list of power output.

The only primer i could find here, when i started out was the W209. W209 is the only primer i ever used in my Omega, until i read about ridding my rifle of the 'crud ring'. Then i switched to them low power primer, and also tried them vari-flame adapters. What i found, was there was no way to get rid of the 'crud ring', and the W209 primer was a good fit for my rifle.

When i started using BH, i used the W209 primer with no issues. Then i read i was supposed to be using magnum primer, so i tried them 209A primer, and them CCIm primer. What i found out was the W209 fit my Omega better than any other primer, which resulted in less blow by.

All primer are not the same length. The W209 primer are about the longest. TC obviously wanted their rifle to work with all primer. TC makes their rifle to closer tolerances than some others. W209 primer fit tight in Omega(s). Other primer fit looser.

W209 primer work good igniting BH in the Omega, because the breech plug has good geometry for BH, and the W209 primer fit nice and tight. W209 primer have little or no blowback in Omega rifles, because they fit nice and tight; all other primer must be some looser.

I have never had the patience to test for Accuracy using primers other than the W209 in my Omega, because the W209 are accurate, and clean.

However, in my CVA rifles, i use STS primer, because CVA breech plug needs modified to be reliable with BH. When i work the CVA plug, i make them so that the STS fits nice and tight. The STS are clean and accurate in my CVA rifles. The length of the STS seem more consistent than the length of the W209, but i haven't noticed they are more accurate.

Good info Ron. Especially about the blowback. I do get some with stronger loads.

I'll order some W209 primers, and not worry about accuracy. I'm happy with the way it shoots Thors.

Disappointed with every other bullet i've tried.

If a Win209 fits yours, i highly recommend them. Nearly all of my best groups are with the standard Win209. Personally i don't feel a mag primer is needed in a good plug. Even Savage has used the Win209 with smokeless for testing before shipment.

If a RemSTS primer fits well, IMO they are worth some range work. They are close to a Win209 in actual "strength" but are supposed to have a hotter flame. Im not completely sold on the primer moving the sabot theory but i have tried WinT7s and they can work great with BH209 under the right conditions and proper fit.

Cheddites are another primer worth trying if they fit but they are a Euro primer and might not fit some USA guns. They are also close to a Win209 in strength.

I'm kind of limited to what my local gun shop handles. I'm sure he has the W209 primers.

Otherwise i'd have to order online, and get banged the HazMat fee.


I did try the Remington Kleanbore once to see if it would fire. It did fire, but had a slight delay. I had already fired 25 rounds, so the BP needed cleaning. Maybe with a clean BP they would have fired better. Not something i'd try hunting though.

I belive it was Cecil @ PR Bullets that first revived the thought that the stringer 209 primers could in fact push the bullet off the powder before the actually ignition of the powder started. Which could if it happened cause a problem in grouping, if not even a larger problem.

Because of these problem PR Bullets developed the 25 ACP ignition system for the Omega using a small rifle primer. It is a little to weak for BH but switching the small rifle primer to a small rifle magnum primer. Cecil later developed another device that looks like a 209 primer but in it you can push out the primer and install the small rifle primers again.

CCI-209m primers are Magnum primers they are the second hottest primer on the market. That is what the 'M' in the title indicates. CCI does make a midrange range primer and it is labeled with just a plain CCI-209.

I do not shoot as much BH as others do but I have found the W209 works very well for in the ignition of BH-209, and in an Omega plug it should even work that much better.

I have experianced POI shifts using different primers but accuracy really has not be effected.

If the BP flash channel is clean just about any 209 primer will ignite BH in an Omega. Remington STS primers will certainly work.

I do not use a lot of Remington primers but I thought the Kleanbore was the ML primer. I do not know that for sure!

Here is a heat/pressure chart.

Shotgun Primers

Winchester 209ML ........................221 f.p.s.

Winchester 209 Triple Seven ML......244 f.p.s.

Remington 209 Kleanbore ML .........318 f.p.s.

Std. Winchester No. W209A ...........336 f.p.s.

Remington STS.............................338 f.p.s.

Std. Remington No. 209 ................341 f.p.s.

Cheddite No. 209 .........................347 f.p.s.

CCI 209M.....................................379 f.p.s.

Federal No. 209A ..........................381 f.p.s.



Rifle/Pistol Primers

Winchester WSP "Small Pistol" ….......116 f.p.s.

Winchester WSR "Small Rifle" ..........143 f.p.s

Winchester 209ML ........................221 f.p.s.

Winchester 209 Triple Seven ML......244 f.p.s.

Remington 209 Kleanbore ML .........318 f.p.s.

Std. Winchester No. W209A ...........336 f.p.s


I'm confused by this. The first one on the list is the regular Winchester primer? Why is it ML? Doesn't that mean muzzleloader?

Why did Winchester come out with the T7 ML primer if they already had the ML primer?

What is the W209A primer? Is that their magnum primer? It's barely hotter than the Rem Kleanbore which is a ML primer.

Or is the W209a the primer you guys are saying I should use?

Winchester actually makes to ML primers... the Winchester T7 primer and the Winchester 209 ML. that is why you see the two primers on the list.

The W209A is the regular Winchester 209 shotgun primer.

Hope that clears this all up.

Another thing if you want to send that plug I will drill it out and put in a vent liner for you. That will make it even that much better for you.

mike

How would a vent liner make it better? It seems like the ideal design now.

i wont trust a cooler primer, especially in colder temps. Its fine to play around with them on the range, but come hunting season, the cci mag is all i will use.

My cva ignites bh209 fine with those medium 686 primers but accuracy was horrible.

Buy a TC. :poke:


Besides, our ML season is hot.

Not to cause an arguement... the Omega plug is a good one, but it would and can be better for BH is the flash channel is opened to 0.159 vs the 1/8" that it is. Allows the primer to work more effectively and cuts down on the build up of carbon in the flash channel.

The addition of the vent liner helps in more than one way. It will stop the errosion and gas cutting of the flash hole by primers and the hot gases that BH creates. The Omega plug is not the hardest material in the world. The cone shape of the vent liner sheds some of the blow back of gasses and solid materials in the bore off to the side instead of directly back into the breech plug again reducing the amount of materail and heat trapped in the flash channel.

As Ron says the geometry of the plug is optimized, or something like that. But the plug does just plain operates more effeciently.

And again thse are just my thoughts - certainly does not have to be your thoughts.

With an Omega plug the powder is almost directly on the nose of the primer. If the plug is clean cold temperatures will have no effect on the ignition of BH. Western has now even published some BP guide lines and now they even understand what I have been saying for years. The length the flash has to travel is the biggest problem in igniting BH in cold temps.

I've read a bit about BP lately. It seems one of the advantages of the Omega is how short it is. Some complain that you need a tool to remove it, and it's hard to put on the primers. That's what makes it so good for BH 209. It's short. Make it quick release, and it gets too long.

I'll think about your mods. What do you charge?

As Ron said someplace... For you and you only this time, the total cost will be what it costs me to ship it back to you...

Hmmm....I give better than I take. I appreciate the offer.

Let me think on it.


I'll use PM's from now on about this.

Yep.. that is best

There is no doubt that increasing the flame channel diameter of the Omega breech plug to 5/32" or 0.159" makes it more better. I have proven this to myself. Making this change is not detrimental in any way, but it does have the advantage of allowing more shots between cleaning the flame channel.

If the flash hole of the Omega plug is not worn, there is zero advantage to installing a ventliner. One day the flash hole will be larger than 0.032"; when this happens, it will be time to install a ventliner.

The OEM Omega breech plug will ignite BH 100% of the time; nothing can be done to it to make it better than 100%.

i like the 5/32" flash hole. Shoot all week long without having to clean it out.