Western Powders and BH209
 

It's about time they start explaining how to use the powder correctly. They even point out about the issues with T/C QR plugs being to long.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/ignition-guidelines/

Since they want to sell powder they need to address everything they can to overcome some of the problems people are having.But I can see that most of the problems are probally gun owner related to improper cleaning and loading procedures.

Jason

You are probably correct.

However, in my experience some plugs are reliable using BH, and others aren't. The Omega plug has never never let me down. I don't use magnum primers, and i don't do a good job of keeping the flame channel clean. My Omega(s) keep igniting BH even when i can barely get a 1/16" drill through the carbon in the flame channel.

The CVA plugs haven't been reliable for all people, no matter how clean they are kept. This has led to these plug being modified. If these plug are modified correctly, they are just as reliable as the Omega plug. A plug with proper geometry doesn't require magnum primer; will ignite BH with any regular shotgun primer, and doesn't need to be sparkly clean, to be 100% reliable

The referenced TC speed plug is very reliable using BH, in my experience. However, i have experienced a couple of hiccups whilst using this plug. Two times out of hundreds of shots, i experienced hang fire that were so slight, i almost didn't acknowledge them. They did happen, so i was led to modify the plug, so as to never have these 'slight' hang fire again. Only time will tell, whether i did a good thing, or just did something.

ronlaughlin

I am glad they referenced the TC Speed Breech as being a good plug, and I believe it is if a person does the flash channel cleaning that is necessary to keep the plug functioning, it will work very well. But more importantly they finally recognized that a long plug can work and when it doesn't it is usually in cold weather when the plug robs heat that should be directed to the powder.

Your modification to the plug is a benefit to the operation of the plug. And I believe it will serve you better in the long run.

Even though I have never experianced a BH hicup with a Speed Breech I also modified mine with a opened flash channel and the installation of a Vent liner. The only difference is that I installed the vent liner on the end of plug as the original was.

I would also think that Western Powders has probally had most of the major company's send them some rifles and our breach plugs to look at and test.Maybe it was luck of the draw that some company's had wider flash channels than others?As my grandpa used to say even a broken clock is right twice a day :)

Jason

Myself, i don't believe it is the size of the flash channel that differentiates between a reliable plug for use with BH, and one that isn't. Most plugs that are made in USA have a 1/8" flash channel. Some of the plugs made across the ocean have a 3mm flash channel. That is 0.125" and 0.118". There have been many many many times when the flash channel of my USA plug was closed down to 0.063" or less, and it just kept right on igniting BH.

There are other differences between breech plugs that are more important to determining whether a plug is reliable with BH or not.

The original flash hole was not on the end. It is below the end about 0.20". It worked real real good with BH, but wasn't perfect. It is conceivable to me, that you may have made your plug less compatible with BH than it was when it was new, by putting the flash hole out on the end. It doesn't really matter, because you use 777, not BH209.

Myself, i use BH209 exclusively, and all my rifles must be 100% reliable with the BH209 powder. This is why the flash hole in the breech plug for my Triumph is 0.46" from the end of the plug. This requires one to turn the diameter of the ventliner smaller, which is no big deal.

I wonder why it is what it is if we know what we know? I guess I am trying to figure out why a guy has to make tweeks to his BP to shot this stuff ? Kinda reminds me of some drugs that are out there some have side affects some don't.

Jason

Because BH 209 is not in any form a BP sub.

It's a smokeless powder in disguise.

Not even works very well with BH - already worked that over. There is no need for a powder port to shoot Bh. The only reason BH originally suggested was to get the powder closer to the nose of the 209.

One day you will find that one out also as you keep making changes to your methods of construction. You are getting closer all the time to the changes that most already know work and work well.

But that matters not, It is all in the mathematics of ignition and undesrtanding the dynamics.

Jason since BH is a smokeless progressive burning powder, it does not function as real BP or other BP subs do. And BH is a BP sub otherwise they could not get it approved for use in a lot of states.

BH is a nitrocellouse based powder and because of that it's ignition temperature is much higher than reall BP or any of the other subs.

Because of this elevated ignition temperature a hotter ignition source needs to be used. Using the hotter ignition primers and combined with the much higher temps that BH works at, it does create additional stress on the breech plug. There are couple of ways to help allieviated the stress on the breech plug. One is to make the breech plug burn and pass the gasses and debris from the primer out of the breech plug as quickly as possible and the second part of the equation is to keep as much of the hotter gases in the bore from returning back through the breech plug. A third part of the equation is the timing that it takes to get the bullet out the bore. If you have room to store a greater volume of gas in the flash channel and/or deflect some of these gases back into the bore - you do lessen the stress on the BP and the flash hole.

This is all something that a few of us learned a long time ago. Tom asked why? along time ago and them with information gained from his use of a Savage he began the developement of what we/he calls a BH compatible plug. Busta about the same time was redesigning breech plugs for the NEF. Then for me the real key came when Gordy Edwards redesigned the breech plug for the Vision ML and it became so successful.

So using that information, information from Tom and comparing thoughts with Busta the light started to come on.

I shared my thoughts a couple of times on the net and then one day Lemoyne decided to take some of the information and rebuild a shot out Omega plug then a Triumph plug. They functioned very well for him and then the race was on...

Lehigh built a Generation I conversion for Knight DISC rifles, that conversion allowed to much blow back into the breech area. It worked great shooting BH, but was not as clean as Tom or might have wanted. We redesigned that one and came out with a Gen II plug that works very well. I actually asked Dave to build a Generation III plug with the vent liner on the end of the plug increasing the length and volume of the flash channel. I shoot the Gen III in 3 different Knights and it works great, reduces the blow back pressure on the nose of the primer and ignites BH with the coolest 209 I can find.

It just plain works.