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Quote:

Originally Posted by Muley Hunter (Post 3806007)

Why do you think the charcoal is only for smoke? Is it just for smoke in BP?

I explained they don't have to list the sugar, because it's turned into charcoal. They only list charcoal.

You also better check why they use graphite too.

Sorry but you are completely wrong....

Do some searching; this whole topic has already been discussed along time ago... T7 is a smokeless white powder until color and smoke are added.

Better yet taste it... there will be no doubt in your mind, there is no surgar...

I'll need more proof than it was discussed a long time ago.

Hodgdon also makes Triple Seven, one of the family of sulfurless black powder substitutes. Triple Seven and Black Mag3 are more energetic than black powder, and produce higher velocities and pressures. Still burning carbon, the carbon-based fuel burned here is from the sugar family, not from charcoal.

Western Powders Company introduced Blackhorn 209 in 2008. Like other substitutes, it is made to be a volumetric substitute of black powder. It is dispensed in "black powder powder measures" for muzzleloading applications. Blackhorn 209 is an essentially non-corrosive, low-fouling, very consistent in gas generation, and non-hygroscopic

The whole article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_powder_substitute

I concede! I really believe that T7 is salt based... It is not even close to sugar content of the APP's or BM...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotloader (Post 3806004)

Think you are wrong... on that point and there are many sources out there for you to check.

If you check the MSDS it list:

Charcoal
Potassium Nitrate
Potassium Perculate
Graphite

Charcoal for the smoke and Graphite for the color. And unless Hodgdon filed an incorrect MSDS - Charcoal is charcoal.

Potassium nitrate is a chemical compound with the formula K N O3. It occurs as a mineral niter and is a natural solid source of nitrogen. Its common names include saltpetre (saltpeter in American English), from Medieval Latin sal petræ: "stone salt" or possibly "Salt of Petra" and nitrate of potash.

Potassium perchlorate is the inorganic salt with the chemical formula K Cl O4. Like other perchlorates, this salt is a strong oxidizer and potentially reacts with many organic substances. This usually obtained as a colorless, crystalline solid is a common oxidizer used in fireworks, ammunition percussion caps, explosive primers, and is used variously in propellants, flash compositions, stars, and sparklers.

Charcoal is the dark grey residue consisting of impure carbon obtained by removing water and other volatile constituents from animal and vegetation substances.

Sugar based powders use Ascorbic Acid. There is no ascorbic acid in any of the T7 products.

Ascorbic acid is a reductone sugar acid with antioxidant properties. Its appearance is white to light-yellow crystals or powder, and it is water-soluble.

Sabotloader is 100% spot on with what he stated.. Ray

More 777 information:

http://www.forensic-testing.net/uplo...xp_summary.pdf

777 contains, among other stuff, Potassium nitrate, Potassium perchloride, Benzoic acid (na salt), Nitrobenzoic acid (na salt) and Dicyandiamide.

BTW: Some bomb squads and labs have problems identifying 777 from pipe bomb residue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcon (Post 3806045)

I still believe it to be salt based powder. With color and smoke added...

Does it taste like salt? :happy0001:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muley Hunter (Post 3806065)

Does it taste like salt? :happy0001:

Ya, it does that is why I said that. When you use a real spit patch you get the effect right away... nor does it even smell like a Ascorbic Acid powder. T7 stinks and smells old, while whoever used the term molasses for the Acorbis Acid powders - is very close to right.

But, I think I do see the difference when you start looking at the chemical formulas...

When you look at all these powders, which I consider sugar powders - they all have AA added which is Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C)

None of the T7 powders have this added.

I know the definition lumped T7 with BM3, and I do not understand why as I think they are fundementally different powders.

Tip for the day:

Put the spit on the patch BEFORE you run it down the bore. (how do you taste the powder on a spit patch?) :lolabove: