Testing day @ the Farm with JSG-SP & T7
04-06-2011, 02:43 PM
#31
Spike
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 60
sabotloader
I have a question about your cleaning/conditioning routine. What's the difference or benefit of the t17 patches versus the montana xtreme bore conditioner? Could you use the montana bore conditioner in place of the t17 patches for the same effect? Or in other words, why use both?
I'm not asking to criticize. Rather, I'm very new to muzzleloading - I just bought my first one a month or so ago. I'm trying to figure out the best ways of doing things. I plan to use 777 powder and would like to reduce/eliminate the crud ring as much as possible. So, I've looked into bore conditioning and even the dynatek bore coat.
I've learned a great deal just from reading this forum. As always, your help is appreciated. Thanks.
I have a question about your cleaning/conditioning routine. What's the difference or benefit of the t17 patches versus the montana xtreme bore conditioner? Could you use the montana bore conditioner in place of the t17 patches for the same effect? Or in other words, why use both?
I'm not asking to criticize. Rather, I'm very new to muzzleloading - I just bought my first one a month or so ago. I'm trying to figure out the best ways of doing things. I plan to use 777 powder and would like to reduce/eliminate the crud ring as much as possible. So, I've looked into bore conditioning and even the dynatek bore coat.
I've learned a great deal just from reading this forum. As always, your help is appreciated. Thanks.
04-06-2011, 05:32 PM
#32
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
sabotloader
I have a question about your cleaning/conditioning routine. What's the difference or benefit of the t17 patches versus the montana xtreme bore conditioner? Could you use the montana bore conditioner in place of the t17 patches for the same effect? Or in other words, why use both?
I have a question about your cleaning/conditioning routine. What's the difference or benefit of the t17 patches versus the montana xtreme bore conditioner? Could you use the montana bore conditioner in place of the t17 patches for the same effect? Or in other words, why use both?
Somewhere along the line I found T17 and Slip 2000 bore oil, and then the Montanna Xtreme Bore Conditioner. I feel a lot more comfortable about bore protection with a bore oil in the bore than a water soluable BB or T17, for me their only function is to help reduce fouling.
I'm not asking to criticize.
Rather, I'm very new to muzzleloading - I just bought my first one a month or so ago. I'm trying to figure out the best ways of doing things. I plan to use 777 powder and would like to reduce/eliminate the crud ring as much as possible. So, I've looked into bore conditioning and even the dynatek bore coat.
If you have a shotgun that is choked and you have cleaned the choke... here is a test for you liberally coat the inside of the choke with BB/T17/wonder lube 1000 and walk away from it for a few days... When you come back and run a clean white patch through the choke it will come out with a tobacco looking stain on it... The BB/T17 over time leached that old powder-plastic residue out of the pores and small imperfection in the choke that you did not get cleaning the conventional way.
I've learned a great deal just from reading this forum. As always, your help is appreciated. Thanks.
And of course today I do and have modified this as I describe earlier in the thread.... T17 patches and or Wonder Lube 1000 Blue Patches make this a much easier and more uniform application.
Barrel Care: this is really a hot topic with a ton of different thoughts - you will develop your own care plan over time.
The use of Bore Butter - I really believe it is a good product but I also believe there is right way and a wrong way to use it in modern day ML's not using real Black Powder.
I almost hate to mention this because it is going to start up a huge discussion again.... I shoot sabots exclusively in 6 different ML guns and 4 different shot guns - 2 of them high quality trap guns. I do not get plastic fouling in any of the ML's and I now can also say I have reduced the plastic fouling in my shotgun chokes drastically. OK here is the dirty word "borebutter"
I believe if it is applied in what I think is the correct method it really reduces fouling.... Example if you have a shot gun with screw chokes after you have shot several rounds through the choke take the choke out and look at it. It will black and streaky with plastic fouling - put a little BB on your finger and rub it around in the choke - you will really be surprised at what happens to the plastic fouling.
My feelings are "how the borebutter is applied is the real key" - It should not be caked inside the barrel or added to the sabots as a lubricant, nor should it be used as a spit-patch.
The ONLY time I use BB is in a HOT barrel after cleaning and when the barrel is dry. Apply BB to a cotton bore swab and run it down the barrel, the hotter the barrel the better, because the pores are wide open. When you pull the bore swab out you will not believe what has happen, the pores in the barrel will literally suck up the BB completely remove it from your brush. I do this a couple of times - then while the barrel is still warm dry patch it with a clean patch and get as much of the loose BB out as you can. After it has cooled repeat the patch process. The only BB that remains will be in the pores and a small amount trapped behind the lands. Your first shot will remove that also. The final step is to apply a light of coat of quality gun oil. What you have now is a clean and smooth barrel, I really would not use the words "a seasoned barrel" because it is not... what it is a smooth bore less prone to cause friction. This coating last for several rounds releasing a bit each time it is fired.
Lots of people are going to disagree but that is what 6 years of experience has shown me and others. It is all in how you APPLY IT.
Another thing I do not battle and I think it is again because of BB - I do not get the "crud ring" in any of my ML's and I use t7 loose powder with 209 ignition.
Now, all of this is my opinion and your results may not be the same - BUT don't shoot the messenger - the non BB folks are a lot more vocal than the bb users.
The use of Bore Butter - I really believe it is a good product but I also believe there is right way and a wrong way to use it in modern day ML's not using real Black Powder.
I almost hate to mention this because it is going to start up a huge discussion again.... I shoot sabots exclusively in 6 different ML guns and 4 different shot guns - 2 of them high quality trap guns. I do not get plastic fouling in any of the ML's and I now can also say I have reduced the plastic fouling in my shotgun chokes drastically. OK here is the dirty word "borebutter"
I believe if it is applied in what I think is the correct method it really reduces fouling.... Example if you have a shot gun with screw chokes after you have shot several rounds through the choke take the choke out and look at it. It will black and streaky with plastic fouling - put a little BB on your finger and rub it around in the choke - you will really be surprised at what happens to the plastic fouling.
My feelings are "how the borebutter is applied is the real key" - It should not be caked inside the barrel or added to the sabots as a lubricant, nor should it be used as a spit-patch.
The ONLY time I use BB is in a HOT barrel after cleaning and when the barrel is dry. Apply BB to a cotton bore swab and run it down the barrel, the hotter the barrel the better, because the pores are wide open. When you pull the bore swab out you will not believe what has happen, the pores in the barrel will literally suck up the BB completely remove it from your brush. I do this a couple of times - then while the barrel is still warm dry patch it with a clean patch and get as much of the loose BB out as you can. After it has cooled repeat the patch process. The only BB that remains will be in the pores and a small amount trapped behind the lands. Your first shot will remove that also. The final step is to apply a light of coat of quality gun oil. What you have now is a clean and smooth barrel, I really would not use the words "a seasoned barrel" because it is not... what it is a smooth bore less prone to cause friction. This coating last for several rounds releasing a bit each time it is fired.
Lots of people are going to disagree but that is what 6 years of experience has shown me and others. It is all in how you APPLY IT.
Another thing I do not battle and I think it is again because of BB - I do not get the "crud ring" in any of my ML's and I use t7 loose powder with 209 ignition.
Now, all of this is my opinion and your results may not be the same - BUT don't shoot the messenger - the non BB folks are a lot more vocal than the bb users.
04-07-2011, 05:57 AM
#33
Spike
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 60
I am not sure that i can give you a great answer... but years ago I did use bore butter in a hot barrel... I just stumbled on it one evening, but I noticed the next time that I shoot the gun with T7 the crud ring was significantly less. The more I used it the more the ring diminished so I continued using the BB for several years in all of my different ML's. I even used it as a storage lube and never had a problem. The next thing I did was to start treating my shotgun chokes (trap shooting) with the hot BB treatment. I would drop the chokes in a pan of boiling water to heat them - then dry them and while treat them with BB. It significantly reduced the plastic fouling in the chokes also.... and again as the metal cools in both the barrels and the chokes - you get as much back out with dry patches as you can.
Somewhere along the line I found T17 and Slip 2000 bore oil, and then the Montanna Xtreme Bore Conditioner. I feel a lot more comfortable about bore protection with a bore oil in the bore than a water soluable BB or T17, for me their only function is to help reduce fouling.
And I am not taking it that way at all...
We all develope our own methods after awhile and we all make our own adjustments and you will too. No big deal... A lot of folks condem BB/T17 and have never tried it but it has a bad rap so it must be bad. There are those that apply it in a manner that will run in to problems down the line if it is allowed to build up or cake in the barrel - I do not believe it should ever be used as a grease.
If you have a shotgun that is choked and you have cleaned the choke... here is a test for you liberally coat the inside of the choke with BB/T17/wonder lube 1000 and walk away from it for a few days... When you come back and run a clean white patch through the choke it will come out with a tobacco looking stain on it... The BB/T17 over time leached that old powder-plastic residue out of the pores and small imperfection in the choke that you did not get cleaning the conventional way.
This is a long read but it is really old - I write up that i did probably 10/15 years ago. My method (right or wrong) of properly applying BB to a bore...
And of course today I do and have modified this as I describe earlier in the thread.... T17 patches and or Wonder Lube 1000 Blue Patches make this a much easier and more uniform application.
Somewhere along the line I found T17 and Slip 2000 bore oil, and then the Montanna Xtreme Bore Conditioner. I feel a lot more comfortable about bore protection with a bore oil in the bore than a water soluable BB or T17, for me their only function is to help reduce fouling.
And I am not taking it that way at all...
We all develope our own methods after awhile and we all make our own adjustments and you will too. No big deal... A lot of folks condem BB/T17 and have never tried it but it has a bad rap so it must be bad. There are those that apply it in a manner that will run in to problems down the line if it is allowed to build up or cake in the barrel - I do not believe it should ever be used as a grease.
If you have a shotgun that is choked and you have cleaned the choke... here is a test for you liberally coat the inside of the choke with BB/T17/wonder lube 1000 and walk away from it for a few days... When you come back and run a clean white patch through the choke it will come out with a tobacco looking stain on it... The BB/T17 over time leached that old powder-plastic residue out of the pores and small imperfection in the choke that you did not get cleaning the conventional way.
This is a long read but it is really old - I write up that i did probably 10/15 years ago. My method (right or wrong) of properly applying BB to a bore...
And of course today I do and have modified this as I describe earlier in the thread.... T17 patches and or Wonder Lube 1000 Blue Patches make this a much easier and more uniform application.
04-07-2011, 06:31 AM
#34
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Then every new gun to me goes through a JB's bore paste treatment and the hot bath when I get it and then it might get the hot bath repeatedly after any extended outing with it. Going to the farm, the rock pit, or even Strychnine gravel pile for shooting is usually a 30 to 50 shot run in that one outing so a new bore would getthe treatment more that one that I feel is already conditioned.
Also now remember it is not like the old treatment I shared with you that I developed years ago it is more like the shorter version that I wrote in the beginning of this thread.
Hope some of this makes some sense to you - remember this is just what I do others will do things completely different and you will develope your own thing...
Remember... this does not cure the ailments of the crud ring, it just really reduces it...
Also you might want to make a batch of these up....
mike
04-07-2011, 04:16 PM
#35
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 428
sabotloader have you tryed moley lube in your barrel trement ive done one of mine and it has about 125 rounds throw it and steel going but after your barrel cools down you have to reely clean your barrel good to get most of the lube out and its work it works good with BH209 but have not tryed t7
04-07-2011, 04:29 PM
#36
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
sabotloader have you tryed moley lube in your barrel trement ive done one of mine and it has about 125 rounds throw it and steel going but after your barrel cools down you have to reely clean your barrel good to get most of the lube out and its work it works good with BH209 but have not tryed t7
04-08-2011, 08:31 AM
#39
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Found it...
Cuts Down On Fouling; Increases Barrel Life
Easy-to-apply paste treats the inside of your rifle's barrel, greatly reduces friction for minimum fouling, faster, easier cleanup and longer barrel life. Synthetic-base formula is specifically engineered to disperse and absorb quickly into any metal surface with minimum rubbing; coats and cures in just minutes. Moly Bore Paste won't oxidize on firing so your bore shrugs off lead, copper and carbon buildup. Because Moly Bore Paste dries and cures quickly it can be used as a treatment for lubrication and protection of all gun and metal surfaces. After curing, it won't attract lint or dirt; great for protecting carry pistols and stored firearms.
It will be on my next order from Bownells...
Those are exactly the magic words that I keep trying for...
a1smokepole Thank you for finding this....
Cuts Down On Fouling; Increases Barrel Life
Easy-to-apply paste treats the inside of your rifle's barrel, greatly reduces friction for minimum fouling, faster, easier cleanup and longer barrel life. Synthetic-base formula is specifically engineered to disperse and absorb quickly into any metal surface with minimum rubbing; coats and cures in just minutes. Moly Bore Paste won't oxidize on firing so your bore shrugs off lead, copper and carbon buildup. Because Moly Bore Paste dries and cures quickly it can be used as a treatment for lubrication and protection of all gun and metal surfaces. After curing, it won't attract lint or dirt; great for protecting carry pistols and stored firearms.
It will be on my next order from Bownells...
Those are exactly the magic words that I keep trying for...
a1smokepole Thank you for finding this....