Hunting Quality Performance?
 

I tested the Harvester Scorpion .40 200 grain.

Knight Disc Elite 45
Harvester Smooth Blue
90 grn Pyrodex RS
50 yrds

I set up 5 one gallon water jugs followed by a wood stump. The bullet blew through all five jugs ( completely destroying the first three and lodged in the stump. I was able to remove it easily with a pocket knife. The shrapnel you see was gathered from the jugs. There may have been more but this is what I found..

Question: Is this hunting quality performance? It looks good to me but I'm a rookie.

Well there is no way to be sure but it sure looks like a Gold Dot or as they changed the name a Deep Curl with an extra profit margin for somebody.Probably made under contract to add the extra weight.
Yes that is an excellent performance. What was the powder and the charge?

Rainier makes the Funnel Points for them and they do have a dot similar to Speer products. They are still listed on the Rainier website but its now a Harvester exclusive. I confirmed it by calling Rainier looking for a supplier for the 40-200gr after Cabelas sold out. Harvester wants about $19/50. When they were sold at Cabelas they were about $70/500.

Your load is probably a fair amount faster than a 10mm at 50 yards and in a 10mm its "ok" with good shot placement. I never could get them to shoot as well as 200 XTPs and the new Nosler 200gr looks very promising too. If you want to shoot a lot of 45x40 200gr bullets, i would look for cheaper options.

From what the pictures showed me, and your statement that the first three jugs were destroyed, i would use this bullet for hunting.

90 Grains of RS.

GM,

I'm open for other options. The Deep Curl has a great reputation on this board but I can't find the 10 mm 180's anywhere. I would like a bullet that opens like your avatar photo. Is that a Barnes?

Josmund

If that load shoots good i probably would not go higher without extending the range of impact too. Ive turned them into pancakes with 100gr of BH209 in my media tests. It appears you matched the fps to the bullets designed limits and it should perform fine at the range you tested.

Yes that is a Barnes 285gr Spitfire and they are known to fail to expand sometimes. They look purdy when they do expand properly. I would try the 200gr XTP and the new Nosler 200gr. Both are under half the cost of the Harvester 40-200gr and the 200gr XTP performs about the same. Its very popular for youth loads and quite effective if shot at the right fps. Another great 45x40 shooter is the 180gr GoldDot but yes..they are back ordered all over atm.

If you want to try a 40cal Barnes that should expand every time, look at the Barnes 40-155gr TAC-XP. Its light but shoots very well plus its cheaper than any other Barnes 45x40cal option. Ive shot a few into media and i have little doubt they would work well within 100 yards and good shot placement.

I like the XTP. I use the 300 grain though. I've never had an issue with expansion. All three deer and one antelope dropped within 30 yards and had a exit wound. I'm sure the 200 grain would produce the same result.

As for the bullet performance Josmund. I would be very happy with that. That will kill anything it hits.

Josmund

Sure looks good to me!

thats beautiful performance! Now i really want to try those 200gr harvesters.

They are not bad but i dont see the sense in spending about 40 cents each for a 15 cent bullet. I tried to buy them in bulk (500) from Harvester and they still wanted full price. Even my local shop used to sell them for $75/500. Harvester has done the same thing with the 45cal 240-300gr Funnel points and now only they can sell them due to their contract with Rainier. They also jacked the price WAY up on the 45cals compared to what other vendors charged.

Noslers are $45/250 at Cabelas and appear to be just as good if not better. XTPs are the same price for 100 and perform nearly the same but shoot better over a larger fps range.

If Speer would get off their arses and offer a tougher 200gr, i probably would never look any further for a 200gr 40cal.

i didnt think harvesters prices were bad

$18.99 plus shipping vs the same price for 100 XTPs with a proven track record upto 2800fps+ MV. Nosler 200gr bullets are even cheaper but you have to buy 250.

Seriously.... you think that the funnel point is a good price compared to the others? I can still get a few 45cal Rainiers at a LGS for less than half the price Harvester charges....ITS THE EXACT SAME BULLET.

Now if they added the poly tip to the 40-200gr...that would be another story. Ive asked them to offer it every time ive talked to Ron or Allen and a good friend of theirs.

I betcha if TB hammered out the .45's like he does the .50's Harvester would offer a poly tipped .40 Funnel Mag. I am with you in the .40 Cal bullets. 100 XTP's and $4.95 shipping from Grafs make it an affordable bullet. I am waiting on Sabotloader or you to hammer out some 100yd groups with the Noslers before I jump into 250 of them.

i see many telling others to use a gold dot over an xtp

In a .452 bullet I like the tests I have seen done with the Gold Dots aka. Deep Curls. I have seen little testing of the .40 Gold Dots but I do believe they would perform just as well as the .452's. Gold Dots in .40 caliber run around $26 per 100 and are very popular bullet as nobody can seem to keep them in stock.

BTW, I do like the way the 200gr .40 Funnel Mag looks. I believe it held together well. Did you happen to weight it?

What does that have to do with my question? Are your math skills so bad you can only side step it?

Better yet go look at Dougs board for groups and performance of 40cal 200gr HP bullets. Then look at the reports of a XTP moving 2500fps or less on reduced recoil smokeless loads. There are pages and pages of data that proves they do work. ;)

I will even help a little


Last time i checked Speer does NOT offer a 200gr 40cal. So there is NO WAY anyone recommended using one over a XTP. :bash:

So bad in fact that i at times have to pull off my shoes and socks at the restaurant and count on my toes to keep track on how big of a tip to leave.:nonono2:

Sorry, No scale but one's on my list.

2800 FPS? What powder load shoots at those speeds?

The only one that mushroomed was the SST's. How do they compare in price to the Harvesters?

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/6853

Box of 20 with MMP tan sabots for $11.59.

the performance of that funnel mag bullet, which is the PT gold minus the poly tip looked decent. if a quality overall performaning bullet is what your after, try the .195 gr Barnes expander MZ bullet.you also can't go wrong with the Deep curls either if you can find them. Ray

I shot a doe last year with 110gr BH209 and the 195gr Barnes MZ at about 35-40yds. Absolutely devestating when I opened her up!

OMEGA,when in doubt use a Barnes lol. the only one i would not use is the one in GM'S avatar. the small hollow point can pencil at close ranges with a heavy load of powder as he mentioned. the expanders and the TEZ bullets all equal DRT. Ray

Josmund

That is an example of smokeless 45x40 impacts at 300 yards. I would think the fps by then is close to a mid sub load at much closer ranges. I would have to look up the BC and run it through a calculator but i bet its not far off. Ignore the far right bullet, is was a 45cal shot sabotless.

It also shows all of them were accurate enough to recover. ;)

Cabelas sells the Nosler 200gr for about $45/250 and so do several online sources like Grafs. Early tests have shown excellent accuracy even at very high fps. The Noslers beat the XTP in accuracy for several of the guys that tried them. Thats why the smokeless data is relevant. We cant reach those levels but we also don't stress the components as much either.

The 200gr SST is pretty popular with lots of guys and IMO holds together better than most SSTs/FTXs. They are a little bit expensive though and they only offer them by the 20 or 25 pack. I think T/C sells a version called a Shockwave too, its the same bullet. The SST probably mushroomed better because by 300 yards it held way more fps than a hollow point bullet.

Those were dug out of the berm too and im sure they would react different on game or a more hydraulic media like jugs.

Wow... excellent results.

imagine what those bullets would look like at 50 yards, maybe even 100. SPLAT!

Except for the nosler of course, but they are built tough.

I'm not sure if you are referring to the Nosler or 200 XTP here, but I would never shoot the 200 XTP at 2,800 fps. Don't get me wrong, I do like the 200 XTP - it is accurate, affordable and performs well at a pretty wide velocity range. But I've had them come apart on me and/or pancacke out and shed their jackets at much lower velocities. 2 different occasions a couple years ago- both times the 200 XTP had a MV close to 2,100 fps, both deer were shot at less than 35 yards. Both were clean kills, but I felt I was pushing the limits of the bullet at that velocity. I've taken several other deer with the XTP pushed around 1,900 fps and they performed just fine.

In my experience, the 200 SST/Shockwave seems to be a bit tougher than the 200 XTP and certainly penetrates better- I've never recovered a 200 SST/Shockwave from a deer, but I've recovered several 200 XTPs - this is at similar velocities.

I have no experience with the 180 Gold Dot, only the .45 cal 250 grainers which work very well.

I was referring to the accuracy record at smokeless speeds. To achieve this they must have a good level of quality control. The Harvesters has been tried at these speeds and left a lot to be desired in accuracy. I dont think anyone would choose to shoot either one that fast at a deer unless it was at enough distance for the speed to drop. The 180gr XTP is actually designed for a bit more fps than the 200gr XTP and have been VERY accurate for me.

The Harvester 40-200gr is $18.99 plus $8 shipping for 50 bullets. Hardly a bargain in my book and they have never shot any better for me than other 40cal options. Its a Rainer that used to sell for $70/500 and charging more for it, wont make it a better bullet. :D Ive turned enough of them into pancakes at high end sub speeds to not trust them for hunting.

I will stick with more proven killers when its time to hunt with my 45s and cheaper options when punching paper. :)

Hey all - what Nosler are you talking about? The grafs site is down so I can't click on the link.