Fun poll White vs knight
 

Ok everybody. Here's your chance to cast a vote on which gun you think will shoot better. I plan on having a little shoot out between a White Super 91 .451 "Bob Bowers special" , 2# trigger and glass bedded stock, open sights versus a new Knight Long Range Hunter 50 cal. I plan on working up the best load for each gun then pit them against each other to see which shoots better. cast your vote now and in a couple weeks when I finish I will post the results.

Are both going to be shooting conicals or saboted bullets?.it will be difficult to vote unless we know.especially since whites are excellent conical shooters. not that knights are slouches lol. Ray

Not enough details to guess. Are you shooting sabots in both guns? Sabotless will be more accurate in most circumstances. The White has a 1/24 twist barrel against a 1/28. 45Caliber against 50caliber, the bullets will stabilize better in a 45cal versus a 50cal. The Knight with the right load will probably win anyway.:guiness:

Grouse you seem to be thinking along the lines i am lol.i feel if saboted bullets are used the knight will win.now if conicals are used the .45 cal 1:24 white with the right conical,may have a slight edge.after recently shooting conicals out of my Wolverine, maybe not much of a edge though.i am a firm believer now that Knights are very good conical shooters.:biggrin: Ray

The .451 White has a 1 in 20" twist.

Yep your right i had .50 cal on the mind,which are 1:24. Ray

Not all are 1/20 twist. I actually shot a white rifle in Tennesse that had a 1/24 twist that was a 45cal. Not sure but i thought it was a Super91. I guess it could of been custom made????

Ya i'm with you as well. If the rifle is 1/20 twist it will shoot sabotless very well. I would think 1/20 would be to fast for sabots. It might shoot long bullets well at slow velocities.

chetmarks

Guess i will buck the trend.... It really does not matter in my mind what you shoot from either rifle, conicals or sabots, in the test as long as it is the same for both rifles.

With that said the real problem lies in the fact that you are shooting a 45 vs. a 50, that is the significant difference in my mind.

The other difference that may show in a sabot bullet is the length of the bullet you chose to shoot. If the the Super 91 is a 1:20 hooting short sabot bullets from it might be a problem...

In most cases, shooting for accuracy, I feel the 45 will end on the better side of that one. Now the fact that you are shooting Supper 91 that has been accurized and met Mr. Bowers... I really think for accuracy the 45 will win that match 8 out of 10 times.

Just my thoughts...

I am going to guess that because it is a Bob Bowers Super 91, you can bet he fine tuned that thing to a tea. And The White with a good conical will shoot just as far as a sabot once you learn the drop of them. Although you are shooting a top of the line Knight as well. It should be an interesting test.

I guess it would be hard to compare a 451 to a 50. The 451 is a 1:20 twist. I planned on a 460 gr no excuse conical.For the Knight ,I planned on a 40 cal 260 gr Dead Center sabot. To make it more equal I guess I could use a 504. I have a Bowers Super 91 in 504. It shoots sabots very well. i could take the 504 1:24 twist and the 50 cal Knight with the 1:28 and shoot conicals and sabots out of both and see what happens.
Same bullets for both. maybe conicals at 50 yards and sabots at 100 yards. Just a thought

do both guns have open sight this is going to be good and your working up best load for each I think the knight becouse the twist:fighting0007:

The Super 91 will win.

With open sights, both will shoot better than you can hold...

To make this fair, you really need an accurized Knight. Then there is the matter of sights. What if one is using a large fiber obtic front sight and the other has a fine metal front sight? Plus the size of the rear notch can mean alot too. Scopes would definately level that part of the playing field.

I will bet that White 451 1-20 will shoot a 40cal 200gr or larger in sabots very well. Those larger PRs QTs should be about perfect. IIRC those did very well in competition in a fast twist 45cal.

Did White offer a sabotted PowerStar for the 451s? I thought they had something that looked like the PR Extremes but maybe heavier. Ive got some Miester cast .401 260gr RNFPs if you ever want some cheap ones to try out.

Interesting.

I have a Knight Disc Elite in a 45 with a low serial number. I've read earlier that it has a 1:20 twist. I'm shooting Harvester 200 Scorpions with good but not great results. Do you think they are too short? Any other suggestions for a target and hunting load?

Thanks

Sorry for the side bar Chet!

GM, Doc offered a 350gr saboted bullet for the .451.

http://whitemuzzleloading.com/myweb2...te_bullets.htm

Best thing to do with that 45 is trade it.:D I would be willing to help you out . I have a new (only shot once) Accura in 45 that I will trade . Ask the Devil ,he will tell you that's a good deal. If not, I have a few other options to offer.

The Disc Elites did not have a 1/20 twist. The Super Disc is what you are thinking of.

I thought he did Nimrodder.

Ive shot the PR QT 40-250gr with good "hunting" quality groups at 1950fps. Any faster and the groups went to hell fast in both my "normal" twist 45s. Even with a Harvester sabots i couldn't get them any faster (accurately) but IMO that is fast enough. It only took about 100gr of BH209 to achieve that speed also. I got similar results with my resized .401 hardcast 260gr RNFPs in both sabots. Those actually shot best at .406 and a 45x40 crushrib IMO.

IMO a faster twist should work great with that bullet at that velocity. Its a near match for the older 40/6X cartridge velocities.

With the right load both these guns will shoot better than any of us so I can't pick one. I would prefer to own the White because I think those long range hunters are kind of clunky to carry arround and I also think the White has a better design overall. Both are great guns no doubt.
Art