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-   -   TC Hawken vs. Renegade (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/339649-tc-hawken-vs-renegade.html)

Josmund 02-05-2011 02:57 AM

TC Hawken vs. Renegade
 
From reading the post these past few months, I've noticed many members are very fond of Renegades.

What would be the advantage, if any, of a TC Renegade over the Hawken?

Thanks your your reply,

kb1 02-05-2011 03:33 AM

i can't think of any advantage accuracy wise,but for me that steel butt plate on the renegade is really comfortable.i like my tc hawkens too,but not with heavy conical loads.........karl

50calty 02-05-2011 04:26 AM

I really like my Renegade. The three main difference are that the Hawkin has brass and the Renegade is blued. The other is the barrel channel. Hawken 15/16 and Renegade 1 inch. Lastly the stock, Hawken patch box and curved butt stock and Renegade is straight and no patch box. For a person that is looking at a flintlock I would say the Hawken is the way to go. No one makes a replacment flintlock barrel that is 1 inch on the flats. But GM has it for the 15/16. As for the Percus. it doesnt matter. You can find replacement barrels for either. Whats nice about both rifles is that most parts are interchangable. So even though the Renegade is not being made I can buy Hawken parts and fix the Renegade.

bronko22000 02-05-2011 06:44 AM

No difference to speak of. I think the Rene has a bit shorter barrel. I know its thicker than the Hawken by 1/6" (except the 54 cal Hawken). No brass on the Rene either and when they were both manf by T/C, the Rene was a little less expensive.

cayugad 02-05-2011 07:21 AM

IMO owning numerous Renegades and Hawkins rifles, the Hawkins is by far a more comfortable rifle to shoot. Now don't get me wrong, I love my Renegades. BUT because of the design of the stock, the Renegade being a straight working stock and the Hawkins having a cheek piece (are they called Monte Carlo.. never could understand why), when shooting heavy loads the Hawkins if far more shooter friendly.

If you were to shoot lets say 20 heavy charges out of a Renegade and a Hawkins. At the end of the day, my right facial cheek is sore, shooting the Renegade. It has been beat up by that straight working stock. Doing the same shooting with the Hawkins, you will find much less discomfort in the facial cheek area from the Monte Carlo stock of the Hawkins rifle. Now this is just my experience. In fact a friend was shooting 426 grain conical bullets with 100 grains of Pyrodex RS out of my Renegade and after 2 shots, refused to shoot anymore. He said it hurt his face. The same load, out of my Hawkins rifle did not seem to bother him. It has to be the stock.

The .50 caliber Renegade is still 1 inch on the flats for thickness. They are a heavy barrel, and two inches shorter then the Hawkins. The Hawkins while 2 inches longer is 15/16th thick. This decreases the weight of the barrel. Also that 2 inch difference I find no problem to deal with. In the .54 caliber the barrels are the same thickness, but still the Hawkins is 2 inches longer. And the weight to me does not matter.

The newer Renegades, called the Renegade Hunter has a single trigger. The Hawkins still has the double set triggers. I like the single trigger rifle, but for target shooting and setting a shot in the field when I have time, that set trigger is a real advantage if you know how to use them and don't get excited. So the old Renegades still have double triggers.

Both are great rifles, and both will serve you well. Other very comfortable rifles to shoot and very well made is a Lyman Trade Rifle. It is just a nice comfortable rifle to shoot. I like them a great deal. And they are much cheaper in price then the T/C line of rifles. I have a Lyman Trade rifle flintlock and it is one of my favorite rifles to shoot. The T/C New Englander is a meat and potatoes rifle, but nice to shoot and well made. And then you have the Black Mountain Magnum by T/C and of course the PA Hunter is a nice rifle to shoot.

Its hard to decide what to purchase sometimes. So I suggest get them all and then let them sort it out.. :barmy:

lemoyne 02-05-2011 12:32 PM

cayugad
That's interesting because I get just the opposite effect the metal butt plate is a little had on me while I hardly notice the renegade. It probably has to do with the way we fit our stocks to ourselves. I hope a bunch more speak up on this it would be very interesting.

pluckit 02-05-2011 01:20 PM

I haven't shot my Renegade too much, and I have only shot it with the .50 cal. barrel. It is the old style Renegade with the metal butt plate and I found no discomfort shooting it. No problem with the stock hitting my face. Plus I never shot anything bigger than a round ball and a 245 grain powerbelt out of it. Now my Hawkins, that bad boy will kick your azz. No way I want to take that sucker target shooting. But then again, I shoot 370 grain Maxi Balls out of it which I'm sure makes a difference. It won't hit your face but that curved butt plate puts a hurtin' on your shoulder. I don't really think there's much difference in accuracy in the two but I won't hunt with either past 70 yards.

Semisane 02-05-2011 01:22 PM

I read Cayugad's comments with a great deal of interest, especially the part about cheek fit. I was thinking "I've shot my Renegade's a LOT with some pretty heavy charges, and never had a sore cheek".

So I grabbed my .58 Hawken and took a sight picture across the yard. Then did the same with one of the Renegades. EUREKA! That's why.

I have scopes on all three of my Renegades, so don't get my cheek down real tight on the stock with them. My lower jaw is against the comb. Sure enough, if I held the Renegade as though I were using iron sights the top of the comb was just under my cheekbone. I can see where that might get a little tiresome with heavy loads. I doubt it would be a problem with round balls though.

The most comfortable sidelock for me is my Great Plains rifle. That baby justs fits me perfectly in every way.

sabotloader 02-05-2011 01:39 PM

cayugad

Dave an excellent write up on the two guns... I would add that I have in the past had both guns myself and at this point I do not have any Hawkens left here - a few to many Renegades but Renegades are all that I have, all with set triggers.

So you can see that i really do prefer the Renegade. My preference does not really have anything to do with how they shoot for me, they both shoot lights out. I prefer the Renegade because it is more like a 'Trade Rifle' of yesterday. I am not much on the fancy brass nor the curved butt plate of the Hawken, although a lot of folks really do prefer it for recoil absorbsion.

I am not going to disagree with you on which gun might be harder on the cheek but i really do not have a problem shooting heavy conicals from the Renegade, anyway i do not seem to notice the effect at all.

Landngroove 02-05-2011 02:07 PM

Both the Hawken and the Renegade are excellent ML's. The .45, and .50 caliber Hawkens, are 28" barrels, and 15/16" across the flats. The .54 caliber, and rare (.58 caliber T/C Custom Shop) are 28", and 1" across the flats. The Renegades all calibers, .50, .54, .56,and rare (.58 T/C Custom Shop) are 26", and 1" across the flats. Both Hawkens, and Renegades use the same locks. They also use the same sights, although early Renegades used a blade (patridge style) front sight, and square notch rear sight. The Hawken was also available in a .50 caliber flintlock. The Renegade was available in a .50 caliber flintlock. The T/C Custom shop offered .54, and .58 caliber flintlocks in both. Also the Renegade was offered in a .56 caliber smoothbore. Other than the Renegade smoothbore, most Hawkens, and Renegades had a 1 in 48" twist.


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