cayugad

The trouble with "experts" are while they might have excellent success with a product, that is no guarantee it will work for you. It is only a starting point.

When someone asks me for a recommendation on a product, or rifle... (and I am no expert and admit this) I will tell them my experiences with that product if I have any. If I have no experience, I might speculate a guess at how the product might work, from what I have read. But I try to point this out.

Also while I hate to say this, I too have wonder if some of these "paid for experts," sponsored by lets call them Company A, are not willing to overlook small flaws in a product. After all, if someone butters your bread, you always be nice to them.

All I can tell you is, I do not bad mouth anyone. I read what they have to say, and take it with a grain of salt. If I have a chance to test the same thing, I like to compare experiences. But if there is a large disagreement with the way the product performed.. I like to point that out. Take what ever anyone says, with a grain of salt. Judge for yourself if something works for you and you will be less disappointed in the long run.

Now.. I have tested products. Some I liked, some I did not. But if I did not, I tried to make that plain. Do I feel guilty for taking free stuff and testing it? Heck no! Who wouldn't want the opportunity to test something for free. But I make it clear to who ever wants me to test it.. it will be a fair judgment and there is not telling which way the recommendation will go.

MountainDevil54

randy used to review cva's before he got on with savage. Toby shoots traditions now.

7.62NATO

I am also new to muzzleloading, and I think Wakeman has some good advice to offer. I have also received great advice here, and of course it is more personalized. As MD just stated, "No 2 guns will shoot a like so you basically just have to choose a starting point and test."

Back to Wakeman, people say he's the poster boy for Savage's MLers (that they no longer make), and that may be true. I have never read articles on HIS site, but have read many articles he's authored on chuckhawks.com, and the products he recommends run the gamut. For a Savage boy, he's pretty big on the Omega. I learned about the SpinJag and their other products from his articles, and they are excellent. I highly doubt SpinJag has Wakeman on their payroll.

I do not agree with him on everything, but that does not mean his advice is not worthy of consideration. I find it helpful to read as much as I can, weigh those opinions that vary as far as the east and west, do my own testing, and draw my own conclusions. Either way, be prepared to spend time and money getting it figured out.

SJAdventures

You probably need to edit this statement out of your first post then. "I believe these so called "Pros" are nothing more than product pimps."

They do push products that sponsor them and we would too if we were raising our families on the income we made through them.

I come to these forums to hear what "Joe Average Hunter" has learned through their trial and error and success experiences. I believe I receive unbias information at forums such as this one. I don't blame the professional hunter (that only means they get paid to do it) for pushing their sponsor's products at all. They better if they want to do what they're doing for a living.

Michael396

I have edited my original post to remove that line. It is hard to explain myself sometimes. Maybe I should not have used names either. I also believe both of these guys have some informative articles and I think they know what they are talking about but they tend to leave out a lot of alternatives to solutions that you would need a place lime this to find.

I too push my sponsors but I am quick to point out a better product for a certain application too. I will also point out to my sponsors where they are failing. I know I have to figure some things out for myself. I have no local go to guy for muzzleloaders and no good place to buy products for them either. I drove 7 hours round trip to get Blackhorn 209. It would be nice if they would do a better job of giving alternatives or write some articles for the new guy, lime myself, that has nobody to help and has to order everything.

builder459

MICHAEL, from some of your previous post, i really don't think Barnes or any other bullet is the problem. as LEE and Sabotloader and others here have told you T/C rifles are tight barreled, some more than others.have you ran 50-100 strokes of JB down your bore yet? Sabotloader had your same problem with his triumph and now can shoot Barnes,gold dots,lehighs and other bullets with accuracy. a bullet is nothing if the sabot is to tight or to loose.as far as powders are concerned i have shot pyrodex and 777 and 777 wins hands down.my BH 209 didn't make it here this past weekend with my friend who was supposed to bring it, but by all accounts it is a excellent product also.if you haven't already, i would try 100 strokes of JB and test the rifles again.Wakeman didn't give the triumph very good reviews for balance and a few other things, although accuracy wasn't a issue in his review.i bought it based on real world everyday people reviews of accuracy.dependability, weight and price. Ray!

Michael396

I have done the JB but have not had a chance to shoot it yet. I have been looking back at what I have done so far and feel that if I had found this site first I would have bought a different rifle for my first. Something that is more user friendly. I go through a similar process with bow tuning. Some are much easier than others and I think guns may be the same. I am not blaming Randy Wakeman or anyone else. I wondered if anyone else felt that the people in the know don't do a very good job letting the new people know what to expect. The way the articles were written I thought I could pick up a Pro Hunter a couple of packs of Barnes bullets and some Blackhorn 209, CCI. Primers and everything would be good to go.

lemoyne

Well you know some people sell stuff for a living, for instance used car sales persons.
If you sort very carefully you can find a bit of useful info. now and then.

builder459

I understand what your saying completely. as i mentioned i read all the same things that you did from the pro's, but i went a step further and did real world search on various M/L rifles.and everything i read mentioned T/C and there extremely tight barrels.every new rifle i have ever owned has had JB applied to it including center fire rifles. center fires can be more expensive to find a good load for than any M/L rifle. most of my center fires took experimenting with a minimum of 3 different brands of ammo, before i found the one that shot well, sometimes 4-5 at $ 25-30 bucks a box now!when i received my triumph i made 30 passes with JB bore paste, took it out with 777 powder and .250 TEZ bullets and was punching quarter size groups at 50 yds with open sights.i have shot gold dot,sst .250 also with good accuracy and crushed rib sabots.get out and shoot the rifle and if the JB didn't do the trick, call T/C and send it back. and most of all be patient and do as much homework as you possibly can on anything you purchase.. Ray

Michael396

I thought I did my homework because of all of the Internet searches. I couldn't find anything in the way of magazines or books other than traditional stuff. I sure am glad that I found this site though.