BH209 illegal in New Mexico 2011
 

The newest 2011-2012 New Mexico Proclamation is out and I was shocked to read that on page 6 under Definitions and Terms it says:

Muzzleloader
Includes rifles and shotguns in which the charge and projectile
are loaded through the muzzle. Only black powder, Pyrodex
or an equivalent substitute may be used. Smokeless
powder, including “Blackhorn 209” powder is illegal. Legal
muzzleloading shotguns are those capable of being fired from
the shoulder only. Muzzleloaders may use in-line ignition,
pelleted powder, sabots, belted bullets and scopes. See
Restricted Muzzleloader, next column.

Restricted Muzzleloader (for certain deer hunts)
Any muzzle-loading rifle (including a smoothbore flintlock or musket)
using open sights in which the charge and projectile are loaded
through the muzzle. Only black powder, Pyrodex or an equivalent
substitute may be used. Smokeless powder, including “Blackhorn
209” powder, in-line ignition, pelleted powder, sabots, belted bullets,
multiple projectiles and scopes are illegal.

They allow Pyrodex, Triple 7, and other black powder substitutes but not BH209? This is crap. If you hunt in New Mexico or plan to apply for hunts here, and feel this is incorrect, be sure to contact the NM G&F and let them know this rule needs to change. Click here for contact information of NM G&F.

Thats down right silly. I think they been out in the desert to long.

they can ban powders all they want because its not what allows for long range shooting. Its the scopes that allow for long distance shots. Hell i got on video my brother in law shooting a deer from 175 yards with my Accura and a puny 105gr pyrodex RS charge. With open sights, no way that shot was doable

So inlines, pellets, sabots, and scopes are OK but BH 209 is not??? Who did Western powder piss off in NM?

What worries me, and i am not a BH shooter, but if one state starts the ball rolling.....

MountainDevil54

Tell that one to Lee - think under the right condition and the right open sight that is a very doable shot.

People have long shot distances much greater than that with older less fancy muzzleloaders with open sights... And they continue to do it today.

If I had the chance to hunt NM, my first shot would be with whats most accurate in my ML, followed by whatever is legal. If a warden will make you break down a loaded ML just to inspect powder, then they don't care about the revenue hunting brings to an area. That type of enforcement will get out quickly, hurting the state and local communities. NM is not the only state with game, I'll spend my $$$ where it's appreciated. End of rant.

I qualified on the rifle range at Parris Island with an M-14 and open sights(peep rear)Marine qualification at that time was 200 yds offhand,300 yds sitting and kneeling(slow and rapid fire)and 500 yds prone position.Very Doable. 175 yds should be a piece of cake.

Charlie

Well fellas i hate to toot my own horn and i am "not" anti BH209 at all. but i have been saying this would happen on other forums for over a year. i never got into it on this forum, since some of the debates in the other forum got really ugly.utah is next,actually if you read there present regulations BH 209 is illegal to hunt with during the muzzle loader season.why? it specifically states no nitrocellulose based powders!.ever wonder why BH is so clean? i agree it should be allowed in all states,but i knew and have argued this would happen.states consider it to be a smokeless powder..

"states consider it to be a smokeless powder.."

If those "states" ever actually shot it.... (especially in a box/tent blind), it's far from "smokeless"

MD for once i agree with you on the scope comment.calling 105 rs puny for a 175 yd shot i don't, especially since buffalo were taken at much longer ranges with 60-70 gr BP and a 400 -500 gr bullet lol.

LOL well compared to what some others shoot, its puny.

Again i am not anti Bh and i don't want anyone becoming upset with me.but do a little research on BH.all i will say is this,it doesn't smoke anything like lets say RS or 777.

I was thinking earlier. NM offers BOTH a general muzzle loader season " that'd be modern" and then they offer a more restricted traditional season..

Modern season SHOULD allow smokeless powder and what not.

I always felt Colorado should have 2 seasons, one modern muzzy anything goes season and one traditional patched round ball - lead conical - open sight conical season.

I sent my email off to them earlier. They wont be back in office till the 27th.

True but the smoke is added to make it more traditional... same as T7 is died black from its original color of white.

MD it would be nice if those states did, but honestly i don't think it will happen.bottom line BH contains smokeless powder period. and that's what these states are finding out and why i think more will jump on the band wagon.is it good for the sport?" i don't think so".as i stated earlier i looked at Utahs regs, since i had tags for M/L season this past year. and it clearly states no nitrocellulose powder.even though it is classified as a M/L sub powder.this is how the heated arguments started.is it a approved M/L sub according to the feds? yes it has been. but individual states have the right to ban whatever they want.needless to say i didn't get to use my Utah tags,since i retained custody of my son in august and couldn't take him out of school.

Bingo sabotloader lol.

Yet some states lists and allows the 45-70 and 35 Whelens as primitive cartridges even though they are loaded with smokless powder???????????? The problem we run into is we have a bunch of pencil necked non-hunting druids making the laws in regards to hunting issues.

a
Amen and in my state of california with some areas losing 50% of there deer herds.we can't hunt mountain lions,area's where the california condor/ vulture roam you can't use lead.and the best one of all lol..the individual counties decide if they will allow doe hunting! not the fish and game!!

Can I request to add pink to my bh209? It would match my panties.

lol!lol lol lol

I think it is interesting that Utah states in their regs that any powder with nitrocellulose is not legal, and it has been reported that there is nitrocellulose in BH 209, but I have an email from them stating that BH 209 IS legal in Utah.

I also agree it's silly!
MD, how do you consider 105gr's of Pyro RS (PUNY)? I shoot 110gr's of Pyro RS and it's not even close to Puny. How was your Brother In Law's Shot Un-Doable? I shot a few Deer out to 175 and further and never thought My Powder Charge was Puny or Un-Doable.
(BP)

As I understand it.... Utah OK'ed it because it met the sub definition - which Western worked very hard to get done. And I should add I think it is a sub, but a lot of folks do not agree that a powder with Nitro should be considered a sub.

The real thing that bothers me is that what is the real difference you can achieve with BH that you can not also already get from T7 or Swiss BP - other than so many feel it is easier to use. Is the additional 150/200 fps that big a deal.

So with that I am not sure why NM or us think it will change anything other than keeping a modern ingrediant (nitro) out of ML hunting.

So what level is the line drawn? What is the real difference you can achieve with an inline that you can't with a flintlock? Is 75 or a 100 yards that big a deal? shouldn't getting closer to game/good woodsman skills be more important. See where this can go? When some states banned scopes, because the "purists" raised cain, the same type of arguments ensued. I wouldn't stop ML hunting if my state banned some powders, in-lines, certain projectiles, and telescopic sights, but as I get older the chance of wounding and not recovering game goes up. So then I have to quit if I'm going to hold true to my ethics/values. Is that the answer we want?

For me I agree that I would need a scope and a decent rest to shoot those kind of ranges but I am surprised to hear you say that. Here is a quote from you a little while back when we were talking about longer ranges; "i feel comfortable off hand out to 150, open sights mind you. Off my sling stix, maybe 200..."

In Minnesota, muzzleloading season is open sights only. I agree that that is the biggest factor in making muzzleloading more "primitive". Our legislature is pressured by the bowhunters and the trads to keep this restriction in place. In some ways, I wouldn't mind it if they made a more restrictive muzzleloader season here. It would give me the nudge I need to get more proficient with my sidelock and it would thin down the number of hunters during that season. I can always use any inline I want during regular rifle season with a scope and with any powder of my choosing. I must admit that I am not a BH209 shooter, if I was I might be bothered more by this restriction.
Just some random thoughts.
Art

theres no way in heck i could shoot a deer at 200 yards with open sights. Ive had the chance to do it before but decided to knock it off to 148 and that was doable. They are just to tiny in those sights at 175-200 yards.

Flintlock for me off a good rest is 100 yards max, ive turned down shots my first year flintlocking due to me not feeling comfortable with the shot. Good thing too because i took a nice 4x4 at 40 yards.

but for me personally, 175-200 yards open sights on a deer is just to far and the target way to small to see.