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Pm me your address.
Don said he'd check to see if he had any, if he does he will send one. Got the Optima cleaned out now, that darn gun scrubber worked awesome! In a way i should thank you for making the optima a mess! LOL I got to try it out on a filthy rifle. |
Originally Posted by MountainDevil54
(Post 3737677)
Pm me your address.
Don said he'd check to see if he had any, if he does he will send one. Got the Optima cleaned out now, that darn gun scrubber worked awesome! In a way i should thank you for making the optima a mess! LOL I got to try it out on a filthy rifle. PM sent :happy0001: |
Originally Posted by ronlaughlin
(Post 3737574)
Breechplug, about a year ago you started a long thread with a question that went something like, "what makes a perfect breech plug' or some such thing. That thread was very fun and interesting to me, and has led to quite a lot of fun for me in the days, weeks, and months since. I have learned so very very much, because of that thread.
The Omega breech plug is about as good as it gets. I won't write that is perfect, but it is near; perhaps i should. It works with every available powder. The Accura breech plug works for you, because of your powder choice. I think it is a good enough plug, and i believe you do too. The only powder i have ever used in my Accura is black horn. Every now and again i experienced a hang fire. This led me to get involved in the thread you started, and this led me to making a home made Accura plug that is better than the Omega plug. The reason i write that this Accura plug is better than the Omega plug, is because i can make it fit each primer to my rifle perfectly, and to date have never experienced a hang fire using black horn. It has only seen single digit temperatures yet, but later this winter, it will experience sub-zero temperatures. Now we have the QRBP. I have fired the QRBP about 50 shots now. As with the Accura, the only powder i have used in the V2, is black horn. This plug amazes me. CVA told me that each plug is 'fitted' to one rifle. The plug comes with a tool, and using the tool, one 'marries' the plug to the barrel. This has resulted in zero blow by past the threads in my rifle. The first time i used it, i used nothing on the threads. No teflon, no grease, nothing. Fifteen shots later, i removed the plug with my fingers, and it felt like it was easier to remove, than it was to install. There may have been a tiny amount of soot on the threads. Then i shot it about 25 more times, with nothing on the threads. It removes so easily with fingers, that it almost causes me to have a thrill. Today, i shot it 10 times, and i had to force myself to keep my hands away from the breech plug, and remove it. To me, the way the QRBP works, is remarkable. Is the QRBP the elusive perfect plug? Absolutely not!!! The first time i actually saw one with my own eyes, i couldn't hardly believe what i saw. I was shocked beyond words. The powder end of the QRBP is virtually flat! Flat! CVA, after black horn was out for years, made no effort whatsoever to design a plug that would work with black horn. Spending all the time we spent on that thread you started, told me CVA had made quite an error. I didn't even try the QRBP, because of my previous experience with the Accura, Omega, and that thread about breech plug. The first thing i did was create a powder pocket like the Omega breech plug, and install a vent liner. This past week, with single digit temperatures was a good test for this 'fixed' QRBP. Left overnight in the truck through the bitter cold, loaded with black horn, and dirty, the V2 never failed to fire. Making the 2010 CVA compatible with all powders would have been so very very simple. The QRBP could have been the 'perfect' breech plug, alas CVA dropped the ball. Using the Win W209 Primers out of My ACCURA produce little if any blowback, I suspect because there the longest Primer and provide a good tight fit. The ACCURA is a Shooter, so I decided to wait. I did'nt need to replace what was'nt broke. It's too Bad CVA was'nt on the Ball with this one, but I bet by next year they'll have a replacement BP for the BH. And by the way, I also read all your Post on your BP Designs, Good Job! and keep up the good work! (BP) |
I am not surprised Western would make a reply like that. After all, when all rifles can shoot his powder, he will sell more powder. I don't own any CVA rifles, but the way I see it, the R&D for the guns lags behind powders. After all, the breechplugs for years were made to shoot real black and pyrodex, and everyone was happy. Then along comes 777 and the breechplugs were not designed for this powder in all cases. For one thing the Omega develops the infamous "crud ring" with the breechplug design they have in that gun. Three years ago, consumers were demanding breechplugs that would solve this problem. So manufacturers starting coming up with breechplugs that gave LESS fire to the powder to reduce this crud ring which of course is the exact opposite of what you need for BH 209. So I suspect that most gun manufacters (including Knight) are working to develop breeches that will handle BH better. Time will tell.
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MountainDevil54
I have modified 6 CVA plugs for shooting BH with a .159" flash channel (which is just slighly larger than 5/32) and a Lehigh vent liner - the folks that have these say they shoot great, but since I have not head spaced them they do have a little blow back. They are using w209's.... |
jaybez101099
Please explain to me why Blkhorn shoots fine out of all my guns(t/c..triumph..ProHunter.Rem-Genesis) and CVA's cant seem to. What is the difference in the Bp's ? Would a hotter primer help the CVA's? I use a .159 (slightly greater than 5/32") and a Lehigh vent liner installed either recessed in the plug or on the nose. This drawing shows what I am indicating. This plug has the vent liner on the end but recessed as Ron does works equally weel in my opinion.  |
SL, is it as much as what i ended up with today?
i probably over reacted a lot earlier but after having these no fires and then this mess, i was boiling. Once fedex brought some christmas presents i cooled down. I hope the vent liner calms it down. If not i'll just get a new plug. |
MountainDevil54
I am going to ask a dumb question and nothing bad is ment by it. When you drilled the the CVA plug, did you pick the flash hole clean. possibly blow the pug out with air? Dumber question you did not drill it all the way through did you? I am serious about this mail me the plug let me run a #21 bit all the way through it and install a vent liner... i actually would really like you to try it. I can not do anything about the head space because I do not know what the OAL of the plug with the primer installed should be. If I knew that i could also set your head space. I am asking this a fellow ML shooter and that is all. What I would really like to do is modify a CVA QR plug and have you test that. The one thing you have to be careful of is not to ding the nose since it is a compression fit to your bore. |
Originally Posted by sabotloader
(Post 3737820)
MountainDevil54
I am going to ask a dumb question and nothing bad is ment by it. When you drilled the the CVA plug, did you pick the flash hole clean. possibly blow the pug out with air? Dumber question you did not drill it all the way through did you? I am serious about this mail me the plug let me run a #21 bit all the way through it and install a vent liner... i actually would really like you to try it. I can not do anything about the head space because I do not know what the OAL of the plug with the primer installed should be. If I knew that i could also set your head space. I am asking this a fellow ML shooter and that is all. What I would really like to do is modify a CVA QR plug and have you test that. The one thing you have to be careful of is not to ding the nose since it is a compression fit to your bore. Let him send the plug he messed up to me. Already talked to Dave and i think i'm going to hook MD up since i cant be trusted.:biggrin: |
LOL no i didnt drill all the way though. I used a #65 drill bit to clean out the shavings and followed up with my air compressor to blow anything else out.
I just took a measurement of 1.644" OAL with a W209 installed |
MountainDevil54
I just took a measurement of 1.644" OAL with a W209 installed And when you close it you are getting a snug fit against the primer??? You are out of CCI-209m's correct? I wonder what that might measure? I also have to admit i can not figure out why when you drilled it out it stopped shooting unless you lost a seal at the primer or in the bore. Really and honestly that should have helped you... |
Originally Posted by sabotloader
(Post 3737605)
ronlaughlinHave you played around with a TC Speed Breech Plug?This plug when modified is an excellent BH plug and does not have the power pocket you speak of...................................
These plugs have several things in common, and they are all 3, 100% reliable with BH. If i understand correctly, you feel the Triumph plug needs modifying. Myself, i haven't found this to be the case. The Triumph plug, and the Omega plug work great using BH, just as they come from TC. I am puzzled why You and some other on these forum, insist that a plug needs a 5/32" flash channel, and a 0.032" flash hole to be able to work successfully with BH. This just simply isn't true. Myself, i have experienced great success with breech plug that have a 0.028" flash hole, and a 1/8" flash channel. You, and some other want to believe the commonality of successful plug is not the concavity of the end of the breech plug, whereas i see this 'powder pocket' as being the single common thing of all successful BH breech plug. My experience is, of course, limited, but all the successful BH breech plug in my life, have either a 3mm or 1/8" flash channel, and anywhere from a 0.028" to a 0.32" flash hole. The singular thing all these successful plug have in common is the 'powder pocket'. It also has been written that the reason some plug work well with BH is because the concavity in the end brings the powder closer to the primer, and that this is why they are good plugs. It seems to me, the Triumph plug shows this explanation is false. Another plug that has the powder quite far away from the primer, is the QRBP with a vent liner installed. Mine has been 100% reliable using BH in single digit temperatures. I have only shot it about 50 times, so i am not able to make a very strong case for it's success as of yet. To answer your question as to whether i have played around with the TC speed breech; the answer is no i haven't, and the reason why is, because it works perfectly just the way TC sent it to me. I assure you, i have no agenda or belief to push, rather, i just want to shoot my rifles without wondering if they will go boom. |
Originally Posted by sabotloader
(Post 3737840)
MountainDevil54
Is that with your firing pin bushing screwed all the way in? And when you close it you are getting a snug fit against the primer??? You are out of CCI-209m's correct? I wonder what that might measure? I also have to admit i can not figure out why when you drilled it out it stopped shooting unless you lost a seal at the primer or in the bore. Really and honestly that should have helped you... I dont have any cci 209m's our local store is out and hardly any of the big stores stock them. With all the blow back,i lost a LOT of seal somewhere in the process. I'll take the gun apart and see if that bushing is screwed in all of the way or not, it looks to be but i will double check. |
Okay it is screwed in all the way
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Originally Posted by TNHagies
(Post 3737628)
Buy a Triumph and you won't have to modify the plug :s2: :D
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ronlaughlin
ref: Triumph plug Taken from the Western Powders email: Our guys in the lab are pretty high on the T/C Omega with the regular breech plug, not the quick release." Ron for me the 1/8 flash channel builds carbon faster than it needs to. Opening the channel to a larger diameter really slows down the carbon build up. IMO, one of the reasons the Soeed Breech works so well is the length of the flash channel increases it's abilty to hole more gas. The .028 flash hole will work, but i believe it is a proven fact that .032 will work in a wider range of temperatures and weather conditions. The other thing I find is that I can use the cooler primers and avoid the quick build up of carbon and get less potential for gas cutting on the nose of the BP. The vent liner virtually assures that you will not ever gas cut the nose of the BP. I am on the road right now so there is not much as far as picture information that i can share with you. I can share that the size of the flash channel is a key asset in making a univerally acceptable all powders, long lasting bp and reducing the blowback pressure on the face of the primer. You may see this re-emphasized in the new breech plugs that will be coming on the market on a later date. One of the things i can share is that we have found with the increased size of the flame channel and the inverted cone shaped nose on the BP pressures at the primer have been reduced. |
MountainDevil54
Okay it is screwed in all the way Another test... wrap some teflon tape on the w209 - make it a little fatter so it will not go into the primer pocket all the way. Now close the gun and see if it contacts the bushing when closed. If it doesn't make it fatter... Once you get contact... try the impossible - open the gun ever so gently trying not to jar the primer or change its seat at all. Then gently remove the bp with the primer in place amd measure OAL... That should give you an accurate head space number... There is one more step but i will share that one with you when you get this homework done... if you are inclned to try all of this... |
sabotloader
Have you ever heard a Triumph owner complain about BH ignition failure? I don't recall reading that Western was having problems with the Triumph breech plug. Out of curiosity, i once left a breech plug go for firing after firing without cleaning. After many many firings, and removing the breech plug, and checking it, i found the largest drill i could get into the channel was 1/16". The breech plug still ignited BH just fine with a 1/16" flame channel. My rifles, with a 0.028" flash hole ignite BH at -15* or so. Magnum primers, have never been used for hunting in my rifles. Right now i am using W209 in my Omega(s), and Triumph, and V2. In the Accura, i am using STS primer. Large volume flame channel or small volume flame channel, i experience no issues igniting BH. If there is a good fit of the primer in the seat, there is no blow by whether one uses a Lehigh vent liner, or a PR vent liner or does not use a vent liner. If the primer seat is loose, or suffers flame cutting it doesn't matter one bit what one uses for a vent liner, there will be blow by. I have witnessed over and over and over again what is required in the design of a breech plug to ignite BH209. Facts are facts. A 3mm flash channel is able to work with BH. A 0.028" flash hole works with BH. Leakage around the primer is not related to the volume of the flash channel, or the shape of a vent liner, it is determined by the fit of the primer in the breech plug. The flash channel does not need to be 5/32" to work with BH. One doesn't need a lot of theories to make a good breech plug. All one need do, is copy the Omega breech plug. It works. Not one thing i have written is 'opinion', or theory. Every thing i have written has been observed many times over. However, i do need to add one opinion. The QRBP will end up being a paradigm changing breech plug. This is my one and only statement without basis, and is one old man's prediction of what the future brings. |
SL, the best i can see, Its LIGHTLY touching the bushing. I used a custom light where i can get into the action area and i can see it touching up against it, How much pressure is against it, i do not know.
I'll try the teflon tape and get with with you on measurements. Ron, i wont comment on the triumps plug until i find the posts. Last thing i need is more people calling me a liar on it LOL. |
Ok with the lights off and my little light, theres NO contact whatsoever against the bushing.
1.651" after wrapping the primer in tape and inspecting it until i saw it touch the bushing. I even closed the rifle and it left a small gap, but with a firm slam, that should give me a perfect "crush" fit with the W209. What do you think? |
this is a great thread,thanks for starting this up again mike.this is just my opinion but i believe the most important thing for igniting bh209 is a trully sealed breech with primer being held firmly in place with no play.two of my knights have knight NFPJ plugs that have convex ends 1/8" flash channels and i believe .030 flash holes and have worked flawlessly down to(if i remember correctly)11*.one of these plugs fit great and is 99% blowback free,the other had a little play so i used a very thin O-ring that busta sent me(thanks again)made that one 100%.my knight shadows(i,ve had two)with the same BP design with the addition of the proper sized O-ring work good too but only for 8-10 shots which is still fine for hunting.my knight vision NFPJ and triumph both came blowback free and have never had any issues.i have no doubt that a larger channel or flashole helps but some but some plugs without a flash chamber at all (knights crossfire-metrics unlimited for the huntsman/sidekick)work very good too.just my thoughts......karl
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As to why CVA MLs apparently have some trouble shooting BH209 out of the box (w/ no mods to the breechblug), I suspect some of us are overstating BH209's popularity. Here on the ML boards, it is well known. Not so much in the real world, at least in my personal experience. I have yet to have anyone at the range recognize my powder - I am always going through the whole spiel of "cleans with Hoppes #9, no swabbing, yadda yadda".
And apparently it is still hard to find in many parts of the country. The head gun guy at Carter's Country, probably the biggest hunting store in Houston, TX (and Houston is a BIG city) gave me a blank stare when I asked about it. We are always seeing posts about where to get it. I think that the "two pellets and yer good to go" crowd is a big one, and not too much affected by what goes on online. They are not looking to change what works for them and if CVA makes them happy their business will flourish. One last thing. The guy at Western Powders said CVA is "aligned" with Hogden, whatever that means. But I would guess if CVA MLs were more BH209 friendly, Hogden's business might suffer. Just sayin'. |
Boy I'm glad I own T/C's and don't have to worry about that stuff.
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MountainDevil54
OK... the first OAL that you gave me was 1.644" Confirm for that was with the w209 in the primer cup and it was siting completly on and against the primer shelf in the cup. You may have to gently tap the primer down snug to get this measurement. Yes - No??? The next measurment with the primer on or close to your firing pin bushing the OAL is 1.651" So to me it shows that you primer shelf should be .007 higher in the cup to get a snug fit with the w209 primer. That is so little difference it is hardly worth doing anything..... Next question... When you are shooting with a standard sub and a stock CVA BP - do you get enough blowback to even worry about. It seems to me that you would be fairly clean. Since I do not have a break open CVA, I would suggest to you that I would univerally build (shim) the primer cup maybe .010 higher in the pocket to allow all the primers shorter than the W209 to work equally well in that gun. That would also mean anythime you use a Winchester primer you would be crushing the very tip everytime when you closed it and the middle length primers like the Fed and CCI would be very close to sitting on the shelf. But again it goes back you are so close it might not be worth the project. Next asignment... measure the depth of the primer pocket from the top of the BP to the primer shelf.... I am on the road now but possibly when I get home, i will try to find or order a CVA hex head breech plug take another good look at one. The only CVA BP i MIGHT have is one for the old Fire Bolt. Do you still have either of those BP's that I thought you got from Saxman1? The only clear thing that does for me is to assure me that a doulble modified CVA plug should work very well with BH in your gun 100% of the time, actually probably all of your more modern CVA's. Here is another one of my 2 bit drawings - look at it and see if it makes any sense to you...  |
Originally Posted by kb1
(Post 3737996)
this is a great thread,thanks for starting this up again mike.this is just my opinion but i believe the most important thing for igniting bh209 is a trully sealed breech with primer being held firmly in place with no play.two of my knights have knight NFPJ plugs that have convex ends 1/8" flash channels and i believe .030 flash holes and have worked flawlessly down to(if i remember correctly)11*.one of these plugs fit great and is 99% blowback free,the other had a little play so i used a very thin O-ring that busta sent me(thanks again)made that one 100%.my knight shadows(i,ve had two)with the same BP design with the addition of the proper sized O-ring work good too but only for 8-10 shots which is still fine for hunting.my knight vision NFPJ and triumph both came blowback free and have never had any issues.i have no doubt that a larger channel or flashole helps but some but some plugs without a flash chamber at all (knights crossfire-metrics unlimited for the huntsman/sidekick)work very good too.just my thoughts......karl
The only thing i would add, and you can confirm with Busta, is if the flash channels were opened to .159" you would improve the breathing and the handling of the gas emitted by the various primers. Then along with a .032 flash hole you would also reduce the amount of fouling being built in the flash channel. My factory DISC breech plugs will shoot BH fine as long as I keep the carbon out, they can get dirty but they still shoot even with a FPJ. |
TNHagiesWhile the TC plugs do shoot with out misfires I do modify them, first if the flame channel is modified by enlarging with a #21 drill they the carbon builds up about 80% slower. Then while they are not near as soft as a CVA plug they do Flame cut after a couple of cases of BH is burn in them using heavy loads so the comes the Lehigh vent liner [ I used to make my own but the Lehigh heat treat is much better].
In conclusion you get what you pay for, and I have yet to find one I could not improve on. |
lee
Timely post... especially when Western notes that they do have a problem with the TC Speed Breech, I am sure a part of that problem is the length of the plug - but the 1/8" flash channel can carbon up with all the others... |
Originally Posted by sabotloader
(Post 3738072)
lee
Timely post... especially when Western notes that they do have a problem with the TC Speed Breech, I am sure a part of that problem is the length of the plug - but the 1/8" flash channel can carbon up with all the others... |
 That there, is a picture of the QRBP with a W209 primer in place. Note the rim. The top of the W209 is below the rim. The 1.644" measurement is the length of the QRBP. The 1.644" measurement has naught to do with the W209. Every primer from the STS to the W209, when in the primer pocket will measure 1.644". The caliper doesn't touch the primer. |
ronlaughlin
Thanks Ron... I thought he was working with a regular CVA plug... So question when the gun is closed does the knurled rim of the QPBP contact the reciever block of the gun snugly? I really wish I had one to play with I would love to modify one of those plugs but i am not running out an buying a CVA.... Second question... What should the OAL be on QRBP with a w209 installed to be touching the pin bushing... for that matter what should the OAL be for a regular hex head CVA plug.... |
Originally Posted by sabotloader
(Post 3738195)
ronlaughlin
Thanks Ron... I thought he was working with a regular CVA plug... So question when the gun is closed does the knurled rim of the QPBP contact the reciever block of the gun snugly? There is enough space so that one can put a piece of paper there, and close the action, however one cannot remove the paper with the action closed on it. I really wish I had one to play with I would love to modify one of those plugs but i am not running out an buying a CVA.... What do you want to do to it? Mine has a vent liner installed. Two other fellas have vent liners installed in theirs. Second question... What should the OAL be on QRBP with a w209 installed to be touching the pin bushing... for that matter what should the OAL be for a regular hex head CVA plug.... First of all, that measurement would be different for each individual rifle. I don't know what it is for my rifle and the QRBP. It could be one day i will make a QRBP, and, of course, at that time i will need to know. As for the hex head plug, i just received a note from a fella saying he couldn't close his action on one of my plugs with a W209 in place, but that it will close on a 209A. Now, i cannot measure the OAL here, because he has the plug, but i will guess for his rifle a good OAL using the W209 will be around 1.305". That is a guess. That is a guess. Another fella ordered a plug with an OAL of 1.310". A while ago you installed vent liners in plugs for Saxman. The CVA lad got them to test in his rifle. He wrote about getting a lot of blow by. So.........thinking his rifle was some loose, i figured i would send him a plug with a little longer OAL than some. This is a guess, but the plug i sent him probably had an OAL of near 1.310" with a W209 in place. The plug isn't here, so i can't measure it. |
ronlaughlin
Check the orange text.... also if you get a chance check this busta information on the last page of this, about his development of the BP for a NEF. Just some general information.. http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/ph...=140919#140919 Thanks Ron... I thought he was working with a regular CVA plug... So question when the gun is closed does the knurled rim of the QPBP contact the reciever block of the gun snugly? There is enough space so that one can put a piece of paper there, and close the action, however one cannot remove the paper with the action closed on it. I really wish I had one to play with I would love to modify one of those plugs but i am not running out an buying a CVA.... What do you want to do to it? Mine has a vent liner installed. Two other fellas have vent liners installed in theirs. Did you also then open the flash channel? And did you modify the head sapce? If you did what should the OAL be? Did you sink the vent liner into the plug farther than the original flash hole? Second question... What should the OAL be on QRBP with a w209 installed to be touching the pin bushing... for that matter what should the OAL be for a regular hex head CVA plug.... First of all, that measurement would be different for each individual rifle. I don't know what it is for my rifle and the QRBP. It could be one day i will make a QRBP, and, of course, at that time i will need to know. As for the hex head plug, i just received a note from a fella saying he couldn't close his action on one of my plugs with a W209 in place, but that it will close on a 209A. Now, i cannot measure the OAL here, because he has the plug, but i will guess for his rifle a good OAL using the W209 will be around 1.305". That is a guess. That is a guess. Another fella ordered a plug with an OAL of 1.310". When we were making the Lehigh we had the same problem rifle to rifle so I left a .005/7 tolerance in the depth of the primer pocket to hopefully handle that and other primers. Just reading your stuff - i bet the 1.310 could be close to a universal number. A while ago you installed vent liners in plugs for Saxman. The CVA lad got them to test in his rifle. He wrote about getting a lot of blow by. So.........thinking his rifle was some loose, i figured i would send him a plug with a little longer OAL than some. This is a guess, but the plug i sent him probably had an OAL of near 1.310" with a W209 in place. The plug isn't here, so i can't measure it. At the time i modified his I had no way of headspacing and he had indicated that his was pretty clean to start with - so i just modified the flash channel and the added a vent liner. The vent liner tends force some of the blow back away from the flash hole. If the timing is right with the exit od the bullet it will suck the blow back right out the barrel with it. |
Originally Posted by sabotloader
(Post 3738247)
When we were making the Lehigh we had the same problem rifle to rifle so I left a .005/7 tolerance in the depth of the primer pocket to hopefully handle that and other primers. Just reading your stuff - i bet the 1.310 could be close to a universal number.
Originally Posted by sabotloader
(Post 3738247)
Did you also then open the flash channel?
No. The #21 drill was only run deep enough to make the threads for the vent liner. And did you modify the head sapce? No. Did you sink the vent liner into the plug farther than the original flash hole? Ha, what do you think?   I was so happy you asked about the QRBP, because the easiest way to explain, was to show a picture. This meant i had to remove it from the rifle. Removing the QRBP gives me a 'thrill'. It seems to unscrew itself. This time there is 21 shots on the plug. Note the threads. Note the small amount of soot on the primer end. The way the plug marries the barrel, seems to work better than i ever imagined it could. No grease, no teflon wrap, no blow by around the threads. The bullet is a 300g Deep Curl found in the dirt. The primers on the left came from the Accura, and measure 0.294" to 0.295" long. Of course i was using a home made plug in the Accura, that was head spaced to achieve a 'crush' of these primer. The primers on the right came from the V2, and measure 0.311" to 0.313" long.  |
ronlaughlin
thanks - got the information... Thinking i will just stay out of the CVA world and let you handle it... |
Originally Posted by sabotloader
(Post 3738323)
ronlaughlin
thanks - got the information... Thinking i will just stay out of the CVA world and let you handle it... Making them hex head breech plugs, had been quite fun for me, before i had to deal with the CVA lad. One thing i did forget to mention; the V2, and the Accura were 100% reliable with BH this past week. There were several mornings with single digit temperatures at daylight. Both rifles were left loaded, and uncleaned over night in the cab of the pick-up. The true test will come later when it turns below zero. I suppose you may doubt the truth of this, because of the one only having a 3mm flash channel, and the other with a 1/8" flash channel, but it is true. What i mean is, from what you have previously written, and from what the shill has written, in order for a breech plug to be successful, it doesn't need a 'powder pocket', but it does need a larger flash channel than these plug have, and a vent liner. After muzzle loader season is over, i think i will put a scope on one of these rifle. They seem some accurate with iron sights, but i just have one devil of a time focusing on the front sight of the Accura, and on both front and rear sight of the V2. However, squeezing through that creep will be quite irritating with a scope mounted. |
creep grittiness is most likely due to the grease thats coated on the internals, theres a special tool to pull out the inners but i dont have one. I use carb cleaner or as of yesterday, gun scrubber to blow out the internals and then follow up with a good coating of Barricade. Beautiful triggers on all my rifles. Except for the Mosin, i dont think anything can help that haha.
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ronlaughlin
Well, that is too bad. If you have no CVA, then you will not be able to experience the creep, and grittiness of the V2 trigger. What i mean is, from what you have previously written, and from what the shill has written, in order for a breech plug to be successful, it doesn't need a 'powder pocket', but it does need a larger flash channel than these plug have, and a vent liner. Who is the shill in your world? is that me? I certainly do not try to be... Have you though about putting a peep on the rifle... My eyes are bad enough that works well for me... of course a scope with a fast focus ring on the eye peice would probably be great for you... |
Ron,New plug with my Win W209 measures 1.300"
I tested with 10 primers and the lowest it got down to was 1.298" Nothing over 1.300" CCI mags are 1.293" |
Originally Posted by sabotloader
(Post 3738397)
ronlaughlin
WHUT!!! thought it was smooth a glass... Not sure that is what I said, at least not that way... the 3mm and 1/8 will work and as you said eventually they will fail if you do not keep on your maintenanace. I, and several others that know these things, believe the larger diameter flash channel will make the plug more efficient and reduce upkeep maintenance. The necessity of the powder cup, needed for ignition, is also negated with the combination of the two modification (increased size of the flash channel and the addition of the Vent liner) Further the addition of the vent liner makes your one breech plug a life time plug. Who is the shill in your world? is that me? I certainly do not try to be... Have you though about putting a peep on the rifle... My eyes are bad enough that works well for me... of course a scope with a fast focus ring on the eye peice would probably be great for you... I'm sorry i thought i made it clear there were two that have pushed these theory about what it takes to make a successful BH breech plug. The Omega plug, the home made Accura plug, and the modified QRBP continue to work in cold weather, when their flash channel has closed down by carbon to as small as 1/16". Your theory doesn't explain reality. When scientist has theory that doesn't explain reality, the theory are dumped. Einstein became famous, because he could make theory that explained reality. The other is also known as the 'arrogant one'. After reading the CVA lad post about OAL length, i am forced to agree with you. An OAL hex head CVA breech plug length with the W209 in place, of 1.310" would probably be the cat's meow. |
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