Round Balls - XTP's - Deep Curls
12-08-2010, 07:24 PM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
Posts: 2,976
Sabotloader
I just read this post. Now from what you told me you think a Bullet should drop each and every Deer in it's Tracks, yet the Doe you shot with the Deep Curl went 20yds, that's not in it's tracks. Now Im Not tyring to start anything and I take everything you say as (more experience) as you've been in the Game longer than I.
Again, you know I love the XTP's, I've been using them for almost 20 years and have never lost a single Deer with them. Most have gone between 0-40 yds befor expireing some made it longer. All the Deer were either double lung shot or heart shot, yea some high or low in the lungs too. Some bled a-lot, other's did'nt. But the XTP Alway's did it's job, so Im satisfied.
Each and every Deer shot in the same place with the same bullet never did the same thing after deing shot. Some ran, some fell, some bead a-lot and other's did'nt. I believe more than anything it's the Deer itself that determines how it's going to act after the shot. Some are spooked, some are tougher than other's and some just plain have a will to survive and get the heck out of there even though there dead on there feet. Also FAT in a Deer can plug the wound channel and cause no blood. There's so many things that can happen as the bullet enters and exits a Deer to have a the exact same senerio each and every time. If in fack the Deep Curls Droped each and every deer in there tracks then I'd switch in a Heart Beat to them, Im sure everyone would. But Im still not hooked on the fact that a Deer has to drop in it's Tracks after being shot or the Bullet did'nt do it's job.
Like I said in a post befor, I've only seen mabey a dozen Deer in 20 years drop on the sopt after being shot, the rest all ran some distance, it was'nt far but they ran.
I WILL give the Deep Curls a try and post the results next Season. What Bullet and Sabot Exactly do I need to get for My ACCURA?
With a 100% Success rate with the XTP's over a 20 year period I think that's enough testing for me to be convinced they do what there suppos-to. But I am willing to try something new if you recommend it. Also your a FORD Guy like me, My F150's and My Newer Mustang are by far the Greatest Vehicles on the road.
(BP)
I just read this post. Now from what you told me you think a Bullet should drop each and every Deer in it's Tracks, yet the Doe you shot with the Deep Curl went 20yds, that's not in it's tracks. Now Im Not tyring to start anything and I take everything you say as (more experience) as you've been in the Game longer than I.
Again, you know I love the XTP's, I've been using them for almost 20 years and have never lost a single Deer with them. Most have gone between 0-40 yds befor expireing some made it longer. All the Deer were either double lung shot or heart shot, yea some high or low in the lungs too. Some bled a-lot, other's did'nt. But the XTP Alway's did it's job, so Im satisfied.
Each and every Deer shot in the same place with the same bullet never did the same thing after deing shot. Some ran, some fell, some bead a-lot and other's did'nt. I believe more than anything it's the Deer itself that determines how it's going to act after the shot. Some are spooked, some are tougher than other's and some just plain have a will to survive and get the heck out of there even though there dead on there feet. Also FAT in a Deer can plug the wound channel and cause no blood. There's so many things that can happen as the bullet enters and exits a Deer to have a the exact same senerio each and every time. If in fack the Deep Curls Droped each and every deer in there tracks then I'd switch in a Heart Beat to them, Im sure everyone would. But Im still not hooked on the fact that a Deer has to drop in it's Tracks after being shot or the Bullet did'nt do it's job.
Like I said in a post befor, I've only seen mabey a dozen Deer in 20 years drop on the sopt after being shot, the rest all ran some distance, it was'nt far but they ran.
I WILL give the Deep Curls a try and post the results next Season. What Bullet and Sabot Exactly do I need to get for My ACCURA?
With a 100% Success rate with the XTP's over a 20 year period I think that's enough testing for me to be convinced they do what there suppos-to. But I am willing to try something new if you recommend it. Also your a FORD Guy like me, My F150's and My Newer Mustang are by far the Greatest Vehicles on the road.
(BP)
12-08-2010, 07:36 PM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
Every deer i have hit with the XTP, has ended up in our freezer.
12-08-2010, 08:10 PM
#35
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Breechplug
Re-read what I wrote... everytime I pull the trigger I expect the animal to drop DRT... but as I explained I am terrilbly upset if any of them make it more than 30 yards and that is being generous, but I thought it would cover my behind....
If I lead you to believe that all a DRT - I certainly did not want to that way. What I will stand behing is that when I shoot a Gold Dot/Deep Curl - there never is a thought in my mind that it might come apart of fail in a mechanical way. I can not make that assumption with a XTP - actually most any Hornady. They are produced the old fashioned way by putting lead in a copper shell, the copper is not bonded to the lead. If everyone would shoot them at pistol velocities, sort like slowing a power belt down to keep it together, it probably would never fail.
Both Ron and I have shown you pictures of the XTP coming apart. I will be the first to tell you it is rare when they do, but i have no way of predicting when they will.
Here is another Hornady that comes apart and it is even designed for greater velocity...
ONLY if you want to - i would never say you had to change or that you really need to change that is your own personal decision.
I will continue to suggest to that technology has improved that bullets availble to hunters. These bullets I feel are more humane and offer a lot of ather advantages to the hunter. I personally know change is hard especially when you consider the old addage - if it aint broke why fix it? - But you might never know if it is broke if you do not try something new.
Example - why do you shoot your Accura? Did not your older CVA's serve you well? Dis one of those fail you so you moved to the Accura or did you see achance to improve and move in that direction.
Shoot, I can not promise you or anybody else that you will be happy with a Gold Dot/Deep Curl but I really believe that they are a better hunting bullet, as much as I believe some bullets are better for hunting than others, just as I believe the XTP is far better than a round ball or a Power Belt over a much wider range of operation.
Ron suggested the 300 grain, I would suggest the 250 for whitetail to 175 yards, but if your ranges are greater than that then go with the 300. The 250 has a very deep hollow point in it and will open at 10 yards as easily as it does at 175.
Lee has used it on hogs - shot it through the plates and it has come out on the the other side.
You are experianced - i would suggest you try some on paper and see if they will work there. Then if you can find some saturated soil @ 75/100 yard shoot one in there and dig it up (i use those dang water bars in Forest Service roads - that way I can say the water bars are good for something) Just remember it has to wet like thick blood and/or organs to make the bullet show its best.
Absolutely true - but if you can create a big enough shock to the animal - it will over ride those responses. That is where the bullet makes a difference... The guys that shoot those big heavy conicals can testify to that.
Think I will stop this has gotten to long already....
Now from what you told me you think a Bullet should drop each and every Deer in it's Tracks, yet the Doe you shot with the Deep Curl went 20yds, that's not in it's tracks.
If I lead you to believe that all a DRT - I certainly did not want to that way. What I will stand behing is that when I shoot a Gold Dot/Deep Curl - there never is a thought in my mind that it might come apart of fail in a mechanical way. I can not make that assumption with a XTP - actually most any Hornady. They are produced the old fashioned way by putting lead in a copper shell, the copper is not bonded to the lead. If everyone would shoot them at pistol velocities, sort like slowing a power belt down to keep it together, it probably would never fail.
Both Ron and I have shown you pictures of the XTP coming apart. I will be the first to tell you it is rare when they do, but i have no way of predicting when they will.
Here is another Hornady that comes apart and it is even designed for greater velocity...
I WILL give the Deep Curls a try and post the results next Season. What Bullet and Sabot Exactly do I need to get for My ACCURA?
I will continue to suggest to that technology has improved that bullets availble to hunters. These bullets I feel are more humane and offer a lot of ather advantages to the hunter. I personally know change is hard especially when you consider the old addage - if it aint broke why fix it? - But you might never know if it is broke if you do not try something new.
Example - why do you shoot your Accura? Did not your older CVA's serve you well? Dis one of those fail you so you moved to the Accura or did you see achance to improve and move in that direction.
Shoot, I can not promise you or anybody else that you will be happy with a Gold Dot/Deep Curl but I really believe that they are a better hunting bullet, as much as I believe some bullets are better for hunting than others, just as I believe the XTP is far better than a round ball or a Power Belt over a much wider range of operation.
Ron suggested the 300 grain, I would suggest the 250 for whitetail to 175 yards, but if your ranges are greater than that then go with the 300. The 250 has a very deep hollow point in it and will open at 10 yards as easily as it does at 175.
Lee has used it on hogs - shot it through the plates and it has come out on the the other side.
You are experianced - i would suggest you try some on paper and see if they will work there. Then if you can find some saturated soil @ 75/100 yard shoot one in there and dig it up (i use those dang water bars in Forest Service roads - that way I can say the water bars are good for something) Just remember it has to wet like thick blood and/or organs to make the bullet show its best.
Each and every Deer shot in the same place with the same bullet never did the same thing after deing shot. Some ran, some fell, some bead a-lot and other's did'nt. I believe more than anything it's the Deer itself that determines how it's going to act after the shot. Some are spooked, some are tougher than other's and some just plain have a will to survive and get the heck out of there
Think I will stop this has gotten to long already....
12-08-2010, 11:07 PM
#36
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 114
My .50 Knight Elite used all lead Buffalo SSB 285 gr bullets, probably pushed way too fast, for a few years until my supply ran too low. I would say the majority of deer dropped in their tacks. Many shots were 140 out to a big Illinois buck at about 175 who also fell in his tracks. The deer shot at closer range, that I can remember, seemed to run 20 to 50 yards and many times I noticed the bullet would enter behind the shoulder but exit close to a foot to the rear on shots that werent very quartering at all. I think I was driving them too fast. I switched to some sst"s and lost the dependability I had. Some very erratic performance, and I didnt even finish the season with them. I'm trying the 250gr deep curl this year. Most of my hunting has been with the bow, 2 bucks and 2 does so far, and only one with the mz. Had my grandson with me, 1st time on a gun hunt for him, and he was following the blood trail better than I was. Must be the younger eyes. She ran about 80 yards, hit tight behind the shoulder, quartering in a little, hit one lung for sure and destroyed the liver. Still have 3 tags. I'm a little concerned how tight they load. I'm using the long black mmp's. Can't use the crush ribs in black? as they are too easy and wont hold pressure with bh209. Need to find a compromise sabot for next season. Grandson cracked me up when he called me Ducky from ncis while I was describing the damage inside the deer.
Last edited by grizzly 2; 12-08-2010 at 11:09 PM. Reason: added
12-09-2010, 04:15 AM
#37
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 542
Now the winchester Silvertip the orginal one not the failsafe nosler bullet but the cheap silvertip they are junk n Frag Up my buddy shot a Bear 480lb.Dressed black bear with them at 20 yards in the front shoulder and didnt do nothing to it but make it mad with a 30.06 180g silvertip that was in the evening.The next day no blood trail we followed the tracks in the leaves left from the weight of the bear,jumped it up he shot it 3 more times.Still didnt die I handed him my 300 remington ultra mag and 1 shot from it,it was over.Oh this was in Pa some of my friends hold County records for bears in Pa not State records,but County..
Never shot a bear with them though, but I have little doubt they would do the job.
12-09-2010, 06:34 AM
#38
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
grizzly 2
Just you know and you probably already know... there are two long black MMP's - the HPH-12 and the HPH-24. Do you know whick one you are using? The HPH-24 is the thinner and it is right between the 'Crush Rib' and the tighter HPH-12. I use the 24's in my newer Knights.
I'm using the long black mmp's. Can't use the crush ribs in black? as they are too easy and wont hold pressure with bh209.
12-09-2010, 06:36 AM
#39
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
ADVWannabee
This is exactly my feelings... the bullet can make a difference
I use Nosler Partitions in my 30-06 now and nearly all of the deer where the shot is placed properly drop in their tracks. When hit in a less than ideal spot, most still drop but a few run. The ones that do run don't go out of sight.
12-09-2010, 08:51 AM
#40
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 542
After seeing your post on the Hornady bullets, which I am now using, I will be looking into something else for next season. I have yet to get a shot this season to see how they do, but still have a few weeks left.