Which gold dots?
 

So I've read of people shooting Gold Dots in their muzzle loaders and that they are fairly reasonably priced. I've been shooting the Federal Fusion bullets, which from what I've read are just rebranded Gold Dots. I've been paying $14 for 12 bullets with sabots. They are the orange sabots that come with them. I'm not sure what size, but they shoot great. Can I get gold dots cheaper? If so where?

For the .452 250 grain Gold Dots and 300 grain Deep Curls (excellent deer bullets) I think Graf & Sons has the best deal, with their $4.95 shipping rate. Look here:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...yId/559/page/3 They are Item #SP4484 and Item #SP3974, respectively.

I use Harvester short black sabots (H5045SB) for both bullets. They're here at the Graft's site: http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/5481

A box each of fifty 250 grainers and fifty 300 grainers, plus two fifty count packs of sabots is going to cost $50.51, including shipping -$0.51 a shot.

If the 300 grain Jacketed Hollow Point Federal Fusion bullets are Speers, they are not the Gold Dot/Deep Curl models, but the standard .458 45-70 bullets. See them here on the Graf site: http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...roductId/17307

If you want to use a .458 bullet you'll need MMP Orange Sabots. Look here and scroll down to the HPH series. http://www.mmpsabots.com/ Although I've heard that some guys manage to load .458 bullets in the Harvester sabots for .452 bullets, I haven't tried that myself.

hometheaterman

I think! - Semi pretty much covered that with a blanket.... They are really good bullets.

I'm a big fan of the 300 grain .452 Uni-Cor softpoint:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...?sku=000214485

They expand well and I've yet to recover one on around 10 whitetails. MMP sabot rate them as a large game (elk) bullet.

Always a big exit hole.

Thanks guys. So I'm wondering what bullet this Fusion bullet is now. I'd had a few guys tell me it was a Gold Dot that was rebranded, but now it's got me curious. They shoot really well, which I like, but at $14 for 12 shots they are expensive. I was using PowerBelts and switched to these as the PowerBelts aren't giving me pass throughs on deer. I haven't tried these yet on deer, but I hope to. However, I'm wondering if I should switch to Gold Dots and use those instead.

........Yes........

I think I'm going to hunt with the Fusions I have on hand this year, since the gun is sighted in for them, and I already have them, but I'm going to order some 300 grain Gold Dots and use next year.

Take your pick based on the game and recoil preference.

The GoldDot .452 250gr will perform great at low velocity. Expansion is nearly a guaranty even with only 70grs. The hollow point is rather deep. I really wish they offered this one with the same hp as the 300gr DeepCurl.

These have been very accurate for me in several guns and dont require heavy charges to "get er done".

The 300gr DeepDurl style hollow point expands a bit slower and drives deep. Its made for heavy 45LC +P and 454 perform levels. Its hollow point is much shallower than the 250gr. Nearly a perfect match for ML performance levels IMO.

The 300gr .451 UniCor SP (#4485 i think) is considered a practice bullet by some but might be fine if you can get enough velocity for it to expand. Ive never really compared these on media or game.

The 44cal 270gr GoldDot has got some very good reviews from Ron on the board and if your gun shoots them well it should be an awesome bullet and fly pretty flat too. If it will handle 444 Marlin velocity then it should be a good match for ML performance.

BTW if they are in Orange sabots, there is a chance the Fushions are .458 GoldDots made for 45/70 performance levels. Another good match for MLs. The 300gr HP is jacketed and the 350gr SP is a Hot-Cor aka UniCor according to Speer's website.

Basically its hard to beat any GoldDot for the money.

Okay so I think I'm finally going to order some of these things. My questions is, how do you know what loads are safe with these bullets? Normally when reloading you have a manual to guide you. With these, I see they are handgun bullets, but how do you know if they will be safe with your powder charge or not? I'm planning of shooting 100 grains of Pyrodex. Will this be safe with the 300 grain deep curls? In a muzzle loader, how can you tell signs of too much pressure?

100gr of even Pyro P and a 300gr GoldDot/DeepCurl with a Harvester black Crushrib should be very similar to the 300gr Fushions...and totally safe in nearly any muzzleloader.

You shouldnt see any sign of too much pressure with that load IMO. Ive used much hotter charges with 300gr bullets and the black Crushrib without any signs of failure.

What gun are you using? Different guns react differently and early signs might be more obvious with some of them.

hometheaterman

I shoot the 250's and the 300's with either 120 grains of T7-2f in all of my Knights and White. I use 110 grains in the TC's and Remington.

I have never had a problem with the 250 shooting them with these loads. The 250's hqve a very deep hollow point and will fly great to 175 yards - after 175 they still have the energy but you will start having to compensate for drop. For whitetail I would shoot the 250's and for elk the 300's...

Because of the cupped base on the Gold Dot/Deep Curl for it to work effectivly it needs to be shot with decent velocity... IMO



They shoot really well also...



The 250 do alright also..

One other thing to add, I've been shooting the .44 cal, 240 GDHP/Deep Curls with good accuracy. I got a doe this past Saturday. It was not my best shooting as I hit her a bit far back. At first I thought I missed (no blood at point of impact) but I eventually found her about 120 yds away. The shot barely nicked the lungs but the bullet destroyed the liver on it's way through (and through) with massive internal damage. At about 100 yds she really started to bleed out.

So I learned two things.

1 - even with a less than perfect shot, the Speer still wrecked enough havoc to put the deer down quickly.

2 - Always to a thorough search, even if I think I missed. Took me about an hour to find her even though she did not run too far.

I shoot the 230gr GDHP out of my omega with 90gr 2fg Goex and a Knight orange EZ sabot.
they tend to string horizontally in my gun,but they are all touching.They seem to like a
good bit of fouling in my gun,but they shoot real good.

Okay, so I finally went ahead and ordered some of these things. I only got a box of 50 and a box of the 50 sabots mentioned earlier in this post. I wanted to make sure they shot well before buying a couple of boxes. I hope these things shoot well.

Okay, so I'm going to bring this thread back up. I'm almost done shooting up the box that I ordered. I was wondering if I want to try a different sabot which Crush Rib one do I need to get to use the 300 grain Deep Curls? Is it safe to assume the crush rib sabots will load easier? That's my only complaint is that these things with the short black sabots are very hard to load in one of the muzzle loaders I tried them in. I like how these shoot, I love the price, and I love the fact that they shoot to the exact same poi as the Federal Fusion ones, so I can change between the two if I run out of one or the other.

hometheaterman

The Harvester 'Crush Rib' should go down the bore easier than the regular Harvester sabot.

You could also consider the MMP sabots, try the black HPH 24s for tighter fitting bores. For even tighter bores, you could use the HPH 3 Petal EZ.

Ive had surprising good luck with the 3P EZ and the 250gr GoldDot in a few guns...even if they loaded a bit loose. The 300gr i had the best luck with the HPH-24 and heavier charges.

If you have a micrometer, check the size of the 250s. Lately they seem to run a bit on the large side but the 300gr seems to be right on the money or very close.

I see here the different sabots listed from different manuf. I am wondering what sabot Hornady uses for their SST's? I have both the reg. 250 SST with a black sabot and I just picked up some Low Drag SST's with a red sabot, not the stick one. The only difference I see are that the red ones are about a 1/4" shorter.
I shoot a Knight Disc Extreme and it really likes the 250 SST over 110 T7-2f and Winch. 209.

Im not sure on the SST black sabot, Its either a HPH12 or the HPH-24. The red SST sabot has 3 petals and is likely a MMP 3P EZ in a different color.

GM 54-120 quote
"The Gold Dot .452 250gr will perform great at low velocity. Expansion is nearly a guaranty even with only 70Gr's. The hollow point is rather deep. I really wish they offered this one with the same hp as the 300gr Deep Curl."

I also wish that very strongly, I would wish they keep making the 300gr as it is as well. They each have a place with a need in a certain type and size of game.
The 250 is just right for deer size thin skinned animals and the 300 as it is now made is very good foe large thicker skinned animal but a 300 gr Deep Curl with the same design as the 250 gr would be good for a very wide range of animals.

lemoyne

IMO Speer would be smart to offer 2 versions of the 250gr. One with the deep hp for "defense" and the 45colt loads. Make the other for use in 460S&W or magnum type speeds with a shallower hp. They offer the same thing in "short barrel" versions of the 40cal and the lighter 45ACPs for the semi autos. The "short barrel" versions have a deeper hp.

Leave the 300gr just as it is. :D

Both are great bullets but i really like how well the 300gr handles any fps at time of impact. The 250gr IMO can over expand at very high speeds but still does a very good job, i just think it could do better. It is my recommended youth load bullet. My friends son loves it with only 80gr and it shoots fantastic. I have no doubt that load would work out to 125 yards or more and perform as advertised.

Now i really want to try the Speer 458 350gr for 45/70s. It has a nice BC/SD and should be great in the 52x458 sabot in the LRH.

Speer Hot-Cor 458-350gr

Gm54-120

Remember under the new rules established by the court system you can not use any bullet designated as a hunting bullet for 'Home Defense' - that is what brought the name change on in the first place...

sabotloader

Thats kind of what im getting at. Label one as GoldDot (defense) and the other DeepCurl (hunting). Change the hp design accordingly too. Its also a super bad idea to use reloads for home defense if you have concerns about legal issues.

Lawyers love to scream "excessive force" and other things in court, especially in civil matters where it is easier to win a settlement.

BTW if i get some of these 458 350gr Hot-Cors, do you want to try some in the 52x458? They should approach the 375gr Redhot in performance/tradjector for a fraction of the cost. Im getting another sizing die to get them close to .451 but it needs to be done in two passes until i get a better press.

Well i guess i will never have any legal issues concerning defending my home. my weapon of choice is a 12 gauge, first shell # 4's followed by 00 buck..:party0007: