Need advise with Accura please.....
 

I own several black powder weapons and have always been able to dial in good groups. But the Accura I have is very inconsistant. I have a 50cal knight and a 45 cal CVA elkhorn. Both will hold a 1" group at 100 yards.

Here is my problem, 2 years ago i purchased a new Accura believing the marketing materials as being the most out of the box accurate out there. First winter i put a Simons pro 50 on it and tried diffrent powder vrs bullet load configurations. This time last year, I was convinced that perhaps the scope was part of the problem so i went out and got a BDC scope. Same problem with consistance, so I hunted with one of the other weapons. Now i am back to giving it one last try before replacing the gun forever. I have given my other 2 guns to my kids that have started to hunt so I really need to figure this out.

I have tried pyrodex and tripple seven powders, i have always shot ballistic tip sabots with great sucess. so i am using the same as i shot (and my son still shoots) in the Knight. I have tried 100 & 150 grains of powder and from 200 to 250 grain bullets. Some are slightly better than others but overall the gun can be 8-10 inches off with no consistant pattern. I have also been using a lead slead or vise on the gun.

Believe me when i say that i am not new to shooting or dialing in guns but this one really has challanged my knoledge. All of my weapons are dialed into a 1" grouping @100yrd or it will not say at my house.

Has anyone else had this issue with the accura or am I just the unluck one? I am hopeing that someone has experience in this area and can help with an accurate load configuration.

Thanks

90-100gr blackhorn209, cci 209m primer, 245-295- 300- 338gr powerbelts, .500" thor 250-300gr.

Or send it to me to look at

doesn't CVA have an accuracy guarantee? I have a knight and an accura too and my accura's bore is a little looser so a load that works well in your knight might not be tight enough in the accura. how do the sabots you use load into the accura?

1" guarantee

I have my accura in the 1.5-2" range with 300 gr gold dots and 110 grains of triple 7. I would like to tighten it but early season is coming up and I dont want to make it worse

That means if you hold it 1" from the target you are guaranteed to hit it.

yep i knew from the start that this was one of those posts made by someone making up phony names!

Once we find out who you are, you just pretty much showed everyone that you can not be trusted.

Back stabbers are at it again!

Thanks for the advise guys. I am not sure I understand the 1" garantee comment. The sabots load fine and seem tight going down but not overly tight. Similar to my knight. Has anyone had a positive experience with a magnum load (150 grains of powder)? To me is kinda defeats the purpose to spend the money on an expensive 150 grain capable gun it if cannot deliver accuracy.

Mountain Devil.... I searously am a real guy with a real issue on an accura. This is not a phony post. I really do have beter things to do than send a phony post out. Not trying to create an uproar with anyone, I am just hopeing someone that has had a similar experience may have some insite on how to fix it.

well i can only take your word for it. If i was wrong, i do apologize, there has been quite a number of phony's here hiding behind other names.

http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powergui...-tip-t1199.htm
http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powergui...test-t1222.htm
http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powergui...ange-t1049.htm
http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powergui...hoot-t1089.htm
http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powergui...abot-t1070.htm
http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powergui...ccura-t941.htm
http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powergui...ed-bp-t887.htm
http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powergui...-thor-t594.htm

What kind of rings/mounts are you using? I just read a post of the cva blog that they keep getting in rifles with the scope/mounts still on and they shoot them, are all over the place, they change out their mounts and they shoot excellent groups afterward. I had a problem like that too with my nephews wolf. Turned out to be the mounts.

And my offer still stands at being more than happy to take a look at the rifle for you. I have a number of scopes and mounts to swab out to test.

The Accura is a big improvement for CVA. But still needs alot of work to be a good ML.

you are full of it grouse.

A lot of work my rear end.

Go have another knight out for dinner with Knight

Well there is one thing; that is the phoniest claim ever made, when they had to do something to compete with the Triumph which may well be the most accurate out of the box muzzleloader.
A side from that in any model of any brand there is always the chance of a lemon it can happened.
To be honest that sounds more like a bad scope than a bad gun. The only defects that I can think of that would not be obvious would be a bent or laminated barrel. A loose action might but should be easy to spot. Come to think about it they did have some laminated barrels at one time but that was a long time a go. There service department is supposed to have become contactable you might try them.

my my but you are a little testy. maybe you should take a shill pill and relax. You are showing your immaturity there FG or is it MD

immature? You and or some one else that started it with you, well into your 60s making up phony names and then going around on here starting BS posts, taking up server space.

you once again show that you don't know what you are talking about. I am not well into my 60's and this is my real name. Is Mountain Devil54 your real name? Or maybe you are posting under a phony name. I'm sure if the issue of server space bothers you it's only because you need it for your posts. Look how many posts you have since the join date versus me. Then add the posts you made under FG and I think the best way to save server space is limit you. Now that is off my chest can we be friends:pcwhack:

Ah its wonderful when you ruffle the feathers of the guilty and they start squalking :D Dead give away

bigblock455
MountainDevil54
FrontierGander
Borecleaningweasel

How many other names do you have Jon?

borecleaningweasel is chetmarks - semisane's doing.

Those 3 should be my only ones.

MD huntingnet of course
FG on multiple sites including mine.
BB on GBO

I think thats it

May I just add that MountainDevil54 is a geuine helper of Black Powder enthusiasts.I have never seen him advertise his sevices for money like others I have seen.I believe his Shooting Range posts are there for the benifit of all Black Powder shooters to benifit from. If he gets kick backs from the manufacturers well then so be it and why shouldn't he. If you take his advice or try any of the products he promotes I am certain you will not be dissapointed. I am a true blood Thompson Center Arms fan. But I also believe that you can get all the gun you need for a whole lot less money from CVA! For only $167.00 I purchased a CVA Wolf and with help from MountainDevil54 I have it shooting over lapping holes in the bulls eye at 100 yards. If I had a longer range to shoot at I truely believe it will hold a similar pattern at even greater distances. What more can you ask for at that price. And what more do you need to shoot deer with in practically any state.

oh i forgot one. My last 2 ex's used to call out the name God a lot.... I think they were talking to me :D

Thats true, 100% true. Theres never been any money involved in what i do for others. Ive restored complete muzzle loaders before, sent bullets to others if they needed them, heck i even help others in different countries get thor bullets bcuz thor will not ship over seas.
what ever i do i simply do for the love of the sport and love helping others get their rifles shooting great.

Im glad to hear about how well the wolf is shooting for you now. I will be working more with the 2 wolf's i have here and will report those groups. I am going to work with T7 pellets, american pioneer, thor bullets.

Sometime after hunting season I am going to try Blackhorn 209. I don't want to mess with the Wolf the way it is shooting now, this close to Black Powder season. Do you own any Traditions Muzzle loaders? I have a Pursuit I really like and would like to get it shooting like the Wolf. It's close but not there yet. It needs smome more time at the range and I was wondering if you had any load recomondations.

no i only owned one tradtions, the Evolution. The pursuit mainly from what i read has heavy triggers. Get it lightened up, that alone improves accuracy

trying to get pics for you guys. will be back shortly.

Here is a pic of the bases.

Thanks Mt Devil and Lemoyne. Just got home from work and shot the above pics. here are some of th answer to the questions posed.
1. the bases are a solid mout Tilly machined base. the are installed with Loc-Tite and feel very tight.
2. just checked the breech, the break closure, and the forearm. all seem tight to the feel.
3. Yes CVA has a CS dept. I called them yesterday and talked to two diffrent guys. One somewhat helpfull the other not so much. In short the told me to try lower (100 grain) with the largest projectile possible. I will try this weekend but based on previous trips to the range, i am very sceptical.

As a last note, if the only reason for posting to this thread is to pi$$ people off, please do it elsewhere. I am looking for real help and have better things to do.

Mt Devil and Lemoyne thanks for your advise thus far. Mt. Devil, i would take you up on your offer but I live in east TN.

I would love to, but it's hunting season now. :lmao:

Been hanging around the computer this evening hoping for some replys but it is getting late so I will check back tomorrow. Thought I would throw out one last question. One of the things I am struggling with is, has anyone been able to shoot 130-150 grains of powder in their accura's? I know that all my hunting buddies are in encore's, knights, even other CVA's. I really want accuracy but distance also. For example, the 45 I gave my son is shooting 150 g of tripple 7 and a 180 grain bullet with a garanteed 1" group. But it is a bolt action type CVA not a break action. Is there a diffrence in break action vrs bolt? If i go up in bullet size and down in powder i can rationalize a better pattern but will it not kill distance? Thanks again guys......

Accura, Just replied to your PM with my number included.

I think its mainly going to come down to finding the right bullet/powder charge. We just got back from the shooting range and i got some pictures to show you! It simply blew my mind when i shot 3 and then another 3 with a higher powder charge.

One thing right off the bat that is bothering me is how close that ring is clamped down to the turret. I know some scope companies advise you not to put it that close. That could be one of the problems, along with the rings

[quote=accura owner;3688155]

I have not read all the posts on here, I can already imagine some of the comments, but maybe you have already got the anwers that you need but as i read through what you have asked....

I always wonder about the scope and the mounts when I read of this type problem, especially with the experiance shooting ML's that you have listed. I probably would have asked have you shot it with open sights @ 50 yards and how did it perform then.... in fact I will ask and suggest that you do that.

Assuming that you are using loose powder, this indicates to me that you really do have a problem, especially if you were not able to get T7 to shoot well for you from 90 grains to 110 grains. I also think the problem will be a mechanical problem. You probably have eliminated the scope as the problem since you replaced it. With that I also assume you have checked the bases. So now I think you might be to a mechanical problem with the rifle.

Things that i would check... the crown - look very carefuly at the crown is it consistent all the way around bore?

Next the bore itself... how does it feel when loading, you really can not go by looks because a bore can look great and yet have problems. When loading a tight sabot do you feel any inconsistentcies when you push the sabot/bullet down? Even if it is smooth and consistent you still can not rule out the bore. If in doubt i would suggest you get some JB's bore paste and run at least 100 strokes with the paste and a very tight patch, no more than 20 strokes per patch. Is the barrel, when locked is it tight non moveable from the reciever?

There is one more thing that can play havoc with POI's. Barrel harmonics - the vibration that go through the barrel when the bullet is shot and leaves the bore. These vibration can be affected by the forearm, how tight - how loose - or even the pressure point where you place the front rest. I would suggest thatyou move the front rest as far back on the forearm as you can. With a break open rifle the up pressure you place on the forearm can really change the POI. The farther out the forearm rest is the greater the chance of changing effecting the POI of the bullet.

Which even further indicates to me that there might be a mechanical problem. To help find and eliminate the problem I would further suggest you shoot the gun at just 50 yards while you elimate and try things. No use wasting the effort at a 100 when so many little thing can have such a great effect @ 100.

I do not have an Accura, have not even handled one, but i have had the same problems that you have indicated, usually I am able to work through it, by eliminating small problem or combinations of problems, and at least most often find the problem - unfortunately I can not always solve the problem - as it is truly a gun problem at that point it need to go back or get sold.

Again I hope some where in this thread you have come up with some thoughts...

With this many replies already I am sure that FG/MD54 has ignited the old feuds that occur here. Even though it is an Accura, and it could be a TC, Knight or any other manufacturer, not all guns that come out of a mass production plant come out perfect. You could have a gun problem.

Good luck...

Thanks guys, I have tried to give everyone the short story of the things i have tried on here. At this point I really suspect barrel harmonics. Although it is probably the wrong thing to do, I am thinking I will buy one last scope, even though i know that is not the problem. On the first scope I removed, i put it on a Remmington 30-06 and it dialed in fine with no problems what so ever. But that will give me another oppertunity to reivew the scope mounts closer also.

To sabot loaders point, my last trip to the range i did shoot at 50 yards and I had the consistance of a pie plate. Bear in mind it was getting late in the day so i did not try diffrent load configurations.

accura owner

I am glad you did work down to 50 yards, and I really hope the problem is in the sope or mounts... but at 50 with a pie plate pattern you have problems - no matter what load configuration you are shooting. In fact if the rifle is right it should not matter what you shoot - In my guns this load configuration is out the door - they shoot what I want to shoot + or - or they are out the door.

Do you still have the open sites for it? I still suggest shooting 50 with them and a 90-100 grain load with any bullet and see what you get...

Hope you get it... but if you have not purchased a new scope yet I urge you to try the open sites first.

mike

I cant say one way or the other about the Barrel Harmonics, it may or may not be. But I have 3 ACCURA's and the Best Shooting Bullet out of them is the 240gr XTP Mag, I either use 2 50gr Pyro Pellets or 110gr's of Pyro RS with them and either T7 Primers or Win W209's. I get 1" and less groups at 100yds and 1-2" groups at 200, depending on the day and me. I've tried other bullet Sabot Combinations and none come close to the 240gr XTP Mag's.
I really dont see it being the Scope, you've tried enough of them. If you dont try the XTP's then send it back to CVA and have em check it out.
As for Scopes with Mine I have a Leupold Ultimate Slam ML Scope., a Bushnell Dusk to Dawn ML Scope and a CHEAP Bushnell and no difference between the three in Groups, just in Price.
Also I have owned many CVA's and shoot them only, and have for a long time, and all have shot the XTP's Flawlessly.
Best of Success to you.