Darn! White's shoot good....
09-20-2010, 03:14 PM
#1
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Darn! White's shoot good....
And it really does not seem to matter what you put down them... I think the 1/24 twist is a huge advantage for these rifles - i really wonder why other companies do not climb on....
Well anyway as I suggested I headed to the farm this morning to shoot the new Lehigh Sabotless bullet (Revision 0). I was hoping to shoot it in a Knight - but the bullet is to large to get down any of the 50 cal bores I have here other that the White U-Mag with a .504 Clerke barrel. and after seeing what Cayugad was able to do with them - I got a bit excited about shooting dome of them myself. So out of the back of the gun safe came the White and off to the farm we went.
This is what the projectiles look like. i really do like the shape as they really do appear to be a well shaped bullet - which I assume would help the BC as they appear to be areodynamic...
Bullet information... Weight 270 grains... I did mic them here but so did and jsteurrys - I trust his measurements and control of his mic better than I do myself... so here is what he came up with...
Heel - .5012"-.5016"
Ogive - .5012"-.5016"
Lands - .5061"-.5067"
As i said I can not get these down any of the 50's I have, even though the bullet was patterned from a DISC Elite that Tom provided Lehigh Dave. At this point they appear to fit some of the older larger 50 cal bores.
In my White... I think they are to loose... I can start them down the bore with my thumb and the weight of the ram rod will settle them to the bottom. I remember when I first started shooting conicals from my White I started with the biggest diameter conical Bull Shop Dan had... a 460 grain .504. I slipped down just as easily as did these Lehigh's but unlike the Lehigh's I am sure they obturated to the bore much better.
With that in mind - I really did not think I would be able to shoot these tht accurately - SURPRISE! - I am shooting a White...
Here is this morning's target.... It is only a 50 yard chrono target, but from this I can say they shoot just fine to 50 yards....
I can work with that target... I was shooting T7 powder and I also tried 3 different primers just for the heck of it. I believe there was a very small shift POI and velocity when I went to the very light Remington 209-4 (410 primer). The W209's really shot well in the pattern even though I had already turned the chrono off and moved it off the bullet path.
The most fun of the day... I walked up in to the harvested pea field and placed 3 clay pigeons @ 100 yards. This gun is sighted in to shoot .451/260 grain Noslers - so I felt i should be in the ball park with these 270 grain Lehigh's. With the Noslers I am about 2.5" high at 100 and I decided to shoot the birds with that thought in mind....
The top picture shows you the placement of the birds @ 100 yards. I decided to go on the left bird first - loaded the gun with 120 grains T7-2f, placed the bullet on the powder - primed the gun with a W209 and laid on the bird. I held the cross hairs right at the bottom of the bird as I would with the Nosler's. Touched the gun off.. when the smoke cleared - no bird... For an ill fitting bullet it shot just fine to 100 yards. On the next bird I repeated the same load and this time I held 'dead center' on the bird. Thought this would be a good way to check POI... or where I thought it might go. Well, I be darned if it didn't clip the top of the bird and leave the bottom, just like it was suppose to!!!! I then decided to go to the right bird and repeat the process holding on the bottom of the bird... The farmer that was watching said it was a solid hit and the bird was 'blown away' as peices... Finally, I decided to go after the broken bird. repeated the load and held the cross-hairs just below the fragment of the bird. After the shot - it was all was gone....
Additional information.... I did not run one patch the whole time shooting - I kept hoping the fouling would tighten the bullet - it didn't but no patching at all. Also Dave lubed his bullets I shot them as they came out of the zip lock bag.
Please remember this is Revision 0 - and further revisions will occur. There are so many different sizes of 50 cal bores out there I am not sure how Lehigh Dave will handle all of this other than the guy does like a challenge. When they might become available - good question...
It really was great morning... I really do like this being mostly retired again.
Well anyway as I suggested I headed to the farm this morning to shoot the new Lehigh Sabotless bullet (Revision 0). I was hoping to shoot it in a Knight - but the bullet is to large to get down any of the 50 cal bores I have here other that the White U-Mag with a .504 Clerke barrel. and after seeing what Cayugad was able to do with them - I got a bit excited about shooting dome of them myself. So out of the back of the gun safe came the White and off to the farm we went.
This is what the projectiles look like. i really do like the shape as they really do appear to be a well shaped bullet - which I assume would help the BC as they appear to be areodynamic...
Bullet information... Weight 270 grains... I did mic them here but so did and jsteurrys - I trust his measurements and control of his mic better than I do myself... so here is what he came up with...
Heel - .5012"-.5016"
Ogive - .5012"-.5016"
Lands - .5061"-.5067"
As i said I can not get these down any of the 50's I have, even though the bullet was patterned from a DISC Elite that Tom provided Lehigh Dave. At this point they appear to fit some of the older larger 50 cal bores.
In my White... I think they are to loose... I can start them down the bore with my thumb and the weight of the ram rod will settle them to the bottom. I remember when I first started shooting conicals from my White I started with the biggest diameter conical Bull Shop Dan had... a 460 grain .504. I slipped down just as easily as did these Lehigh's but unlike the Lehigh's I am sure they obturated to the bore much better.
With that in mind - I really did not think I would be able to shoot these tht accurately - SURPRISE! - I am shooting a White...
Here is this morning's target.... It is only a 50 yard chrono target, but from this I can say they shoot just fine to 50 yards....
I can work with that target... I was shooting T7 powder and I also tried 3 different primers just for the heck of it. I believe there was a very small shift POI and velocity when I went to the very light Remington 209-4 (410 primer). The W209's really shot well in the pattern even though I had already turned the chrono off and moved it off the bullet path.
The most fun of the day... I walked up in to the harvested pea field and placed 3 clay pigeons @ 100 yards. This gun is sighted in to shoot .451/260 grain Noslers - so I felt i should be in the ball park with these 270 grain Lehigh's. With the Noslers I am about 2.5" high at 100 and I decided to shoot the birds with that thought in mind....
The top picture shows you the placement of the birds @ 100 yards. I decided to go on the left bird first - loaded the gun with 120 grains T7-2f, placed the bullet on the powder - primed the gun with a W209 and laid on the bird. I held the cross hairs right at the bottom of the bird as I would with the Nosler's. Touched the gun off.. when the smoke cleared - no bird... For an ill fitting bullet it shot just fine to 100 yards. On the next bird I repeated the same load and this time I held 'dead center' on the bird. Thought this would be a good way to check POI... or where I thought it might go. Well, I be darned if it didn't clip the top of the bird and leave the bottom, just like it was suppose to!!!! I then decided to go to the right bird and repeat the process holding on the bottom of the bird... The farmer that was watching said it was a solid hit and the bird was 'blown away' as peices... Finally, I decided to go after the broken bird. repeated the load and held the cross-hairs just below the fragment of the bird. After the shot - it was all was gone....
Additional information.... I did not run one patch the whole time shooting - I kept hoping the fouling would tighten the bullet - it didn't but no patching at all. Also Dave lubed his bullets I shot them as they came out of the zip lock bag.
Please remember this is Revision 0 - and further revisions will occur. There are so many different sizes of 50 cal bores out there I am not sure how Lehigh Dave will handle all of this other than the guy does like a challenge. When they might become available - good question...
It really was great morning... I really do like this being mostly retired again.
Last edited by sabotloader; 09-20-2010 at 03:21 PM.
09-20-2010, 04:31 PM
#3
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
WOW!! impressive shooting there. And with that kind of powder charge you really had some interesting velocities. Pushing a .50 caliber conical over 2000 fps is just flat out impressive. That would flatten anything it comes in contact with.
I lubed them because they loaded do hard. I think without the lube I would have been loading them with a 16 ounce hammer. Funny thing in the Knight, once they were in the bore, they went down rather easy. Does Knight taper the bore?
What I really found interesting is that the changing or primers made a difference in POI and velocity. Excellent shooting and an excellent report.
I lubed them because they loaded do hard. I think without the lube I would have been loading them with a 16 ounce hammer. Funny thing in the Knight, once they were in the bore, they went down rather easy. Does Knight taper the bore?
What I really found interesting is that the changing or primers made a difference in POI and velocity. Excellent shooting and an excellent report.
09-20-2010, 04:51 PM
#4
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
cayugad
I can understand that completely.... I just can not figure out WHY? they load well in Tom's DISC Elite that Dave used as a pattern.
No, the bore is not tapered, it is just a matter of getting them by the crown... If everything were right... the heel and the ogive of the bullet should not be engraved on the way down the bore (those are my thoughts) - the engraving should happen on the rings. The other thought... brass is so much harder than lead even pushing the lands through the rings can be difficult and then when you add the engraving on the heel and the ogive makes it that much more difficult. Once you have the engraving process done the bullet will normally go down fair easily.
In a way i am actually glad to hear that it was difficult to get them down your LK... I really believe the bullet diameter needs to be trimmed down and if he can get it to fit a majority of the 50's he will have a big part of the battle won.
Another thought the more rings you have the more difficut to start - so maybe removing a ring would also help - just need to spact the rings out to equal the same area they occupy now.
Another thing - these were the first attempt and I expect better things to come in the future.
Shoot the rest of them out of your U-Mag - you will really like them in that gun... but I am still curious about the Bison....
I lubed them because they loaded do hard. I think without the lube I would have been loading them with a 16 ounce hammer. Funny thing in the Knight, once they were in the bore, they went down rather easy. Does Knight taper the bore?
No, the bore is not tapered, it is just a matter of getting them by the crown... If everything were right... the heel and the ogive of the bullet should not be engraved on the way down the bore (those are my thoughts) - the engraving should happen on the rings. The other thought... brass is so much harder than lead even pushing the lands through the rings can be difficult and then when you add the engraving on the heel and the ogive makes it that much more difficult. Once you have the engraving process done the bullet will normally go down fair easily.
In a way i am actually glad to hear that it was difficult to get them down your LK... I really believe the bullet diameter needs to be trimmed down and if he can get it to fit a majority of the 50's he will have a big part of the battle won.
Another thought the more rings you have the more difficut to start - so maybe removing a ring would also help - just need to spact the rings out to equal the same area they occupy now.
Another thing - these were the first attempt and I expect better things to come in the future.
Shoot the rest of them out of your U-Mag - you will really like them in that gun... but I am still curious about the Bison....
09-20-2010, 05:05 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
Like Sabotloader mentioned, this is the very first test bullet with the Lehigh 50cal Sabotless. As a matter of fact, i sent him all of mine because they don't fit in my guns. Still some tweaking that needs done for sure.
BTW- That is the best shooting i ever seen you post. You could shoot chipmunks with that load.
BTW- That is the best shooting i ever seen you post. You could shoot chipmunks with that load.
09-22-2010, 09:39 AM
#7
Spike
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: wherever I'm needed
Posts: 86
Contact me within the next 30 minutes and for less than $20.00 I will help you to get it shooting even better . Pm me within 30 minutes for this special deal. After that it will be more.
Sincerely borecleaningweasel.
Sincerely borecleaningweasel.
09-22-2010, 11:46 AM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
borecleaningweasel
You're thinking I, myself can do better?
Let me guess with your experteeze and $18.95 - you will get me to the promised land...
Shoot! I forgot to ask about your credentials... how did you get the title 'EXPERT' in all matters muzzleloading?
You're thinking I, myself can do better?
Let me guess with your experteeze and $18.95 - you will get me to the promised land...
Shoot! I forgot to ask about your credentials... how did you get the title 'EXPERT' in all matters muzzleloading?
09-22-2010, 02:13 PM
#9
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
I took the remaining five Lehigh conical bullets today and shot them out of my Ultra Mag. I used 110 grains of Triple Seven 2f powder and no lube. They were indeed a slip fit. They basically loaded themselves.
Rifle: White Ultra Mag .504
Projectile: 270 grain Lehigh conical
Powder: 110 grains of Triple Seven 2f
Range: 50 yards
Weather : 50's over cast windy
Notes: I did not swab between shots
As you can see ... not a very good group. But I wonder if the fact I was very tired, and physically exhausted might have come into play. (I spent all morning and afternoon cutting and splitting firewood) Although I did feel the shots were well made until they showed up.
I also wanted to try the new 540 grain conicals I made and tried them with 60, 80, and 100 grains of powder. They shot real well, but then would suddenly throw a flier three inches out of the group. So maybe today was not my day.
Rifle: White Ultra Mag .504
Projectile: 270 grain Lehigh conical
Powder: 110 grains of Triple Seven 2f
Range: 50 yards
Weather : 50's over cast windy
Notes: I did not swab between shots
As you can see ... not a very good group. But I wonder if the fact I was very tired, and physically exhausted might have come into play. (I spent all morning and afternoon cutting and splitting firewood) Although I did feel the shots were well made until they showed up.
I also wanted to try the new 540 grain conicals I made and tried them with 60, 80, and 100 grains of powder. They shot real well, but then would suddenly throw a flier three inches out of the group. So maybe today was not my day.
09-22-2010, 02:27 PM
#10
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
cayugad
Possibly another problem was because some of them had been pre-engraved in another rifle? + they just might have been to loose for your bore....
Chief is saying that he has a Super 91 with Wilson barrel that measures .5038/.504 - If i get some more might have him shoot a few....
Possibly another problem was because some of them had been pre-engraved in another rifle? + they just might have been to loose for your bore....
Chief is saying that he has a Super 91 with Wilson barrel that measures .5038/.504 - If i get some more might have him shoot a few....