For all you hardcore shooters...i need help!!
 

Hey all,
I'm in need of some help...i'm trying to work up a load for a nebraska hunt in december. been shooting the last couple days at 100 yards and the oddest thing is happening. No matter what load combo i try, with every 3 shot group i'm touching 2 out of 3 bullets...sometimes shots 1 and 3, and sometimes shots 2 and 3. Is this dumb luck, or is there a cause? Should I be happy or frustrated?? In some cases, shot 1 is clean bore, and in others it's dirty. Let me know your thoughts....here are scans of the targets with load info..thanks a bunch...

With all shots, I'm using a traditions pursuit xlt thumbhole, winchester primers, Blackhorn 209, and varying bullets and sabots.(240 grain dead center, 260 grain dead center, 200 grain shockwave) ( harvester crush rib .40 sabot as well as orange .40 sabot that comes with the dead center bullets)

by the way, that's a quarter for reference...

I have shot the 200 gr shockwaves in one of my ML for many years. I only use about 85 to 90 grns of powder behind them as I found that to be the most accurate out of my rifle. I could shoot 5 shots accurately with that load combo and open sights. I think I killed about 12 deer during Nebraskas December ML season over the last few years with that load. Are you shooting open sights? I am not sure if Nebraskas Has changed in two years but scopes were not allowed unless they are 1X in the ML season.

muzzypower - Try indexing your sabots. I was surprised at the consistency increase I seen. Some load them with the petals touching a certain amount of lands but I simply make sure that I line up one of the petals with the front sight (as a refrence to the 12 o'clock position) That way the lands and groves are gripping the sabot the same way every shot.

The animal wont no the difference. The sabots you are using are MMP sabots. I find more consistent shooting with Harvesters. I would also suggets weighing your loads by weight if you are going to be that picky in your group size.

You have all of the hunting accuracy you need right there muzzypower. But still, we all want one-inch groups if we can get them.

In my opinion, the first thing you have to do is shoot some five shot groups. Right now you don't know if you're shooting 1/2" groups with an occasional very minor flyer, or 2" groups in which two of the shots happen to be next to each other.

Whatever the bore's conditions...keep them repeatable. You're probably going to hunt on a cold, clean bore. Shoot on a cold, clean bore--every shot, when sighting.

that's a good question regarding the scope...i'm currently shooting an omega bdc 3-9...guess i should check the regs

i like the 200 grain shockwave...it shoots good for me but think it's probably a bit too light if confronted with a 200 yard shot.

shooting the blackhorn 209, i figured that when we get there we'd shoot the rifles to make sure there on...and then i'd just leave the bore dirty for the week.

the load i'm really hoping to use is the 260 grain dead center with 110 or 120 grains bh209..both groups are good. I have 260/300 scorpion pt golds as well but they haven't shot quite as well.

checked the regs and variable power is fine

First thing I would do is move in to 50 yards and shoot a five shot group. check and see if you have fliers there. Then hit the 75 yard line and do the same thing. Again, if it is making fliers at the close distances they should only get worse the further back you get.

Then at 100 yards shoot that same five shots. It looks like you have good accuracy. Also make sure you are swabbing the same for each shot.

IMO a MZ is not like a centerfire rifle. I really do not care what kind of group my MZ is shooting. All I care about is where that first cold bore shot goes. Shot 2 and 3 make no difference to me in a hunting rifle. I completely clean my rifle between every shot when I am preparing a rifle to hunt with. And then I load the rifle under the conditions that it will be loaded when I am huntnig. For me this even includes the time of year, and hopefully in the area where I am hunting. For example. When we elk hunt with our MZ's out west. I always make sure I have a full day before season to shoot my rifle. I want to know exactly what my rifle is doing, and under the conditions that I will be doing it in. Is this a little anal?? Yes. But I have 100% confidence in my system.

I even leave my rifle outside when hunting season is approaching. And shoot it that way. You will never see my MZ in the cab of a hot pickup truck. Tom.

Everything as consistent as you can get it:

weigh powder, not measure, makes a difference
clean exactly the same every shot, no dirty bore,
weigh the bullets before you use them
I shot 5 shot groups always and you get a better idea of a group with that.
Also when you seat the bullet, put all your weight over top of it
that way your compacting the power the same.
Wait 5 minutes between shot, don't put the sabot and bullet in there and let it sit with a hot barrel it will soften the sabot up and make accuracy suffer.

I am with Falcon, looks like you got 2" groups right now and that is plenty accurate for hunting out to 150 yards with aiming dead on.
Chap

i wait about 15 minutes between shots...i just do things around the house...i'm lucky to be able to shoot off my deck.

I have tried swabbing/not swabbing to different extents...it definitely has much less impact with BH than with other powders in my opinion...still experimenting with the bore issue.

Five shot groups will give more information. Along with that there is a couple of things you could do to improve consistency. Do index your sabots preferably to get 2 lands on each sabot, I find the longer the range the more difference this makes.
Secondly be careful to get the same setting pressure this can make a bigger difference than most people would believe. These two things alone can be the difference between a 1.5 inch group and a .5 inch group if you have control a good scope and decent form for rest shooting. Lee

Ok...thanks for all the input

here's my plan....

if there's no wind tomorrow, i'm going to shoot a 5 shot group with my 240 grain dead centers (since that's basically all i have left) I will try indexing them..range yet to be determined but it will probably be 100 because of my bullet shortage.

I'm going to either clean the bore after each shot, or just fould the bore first and then remove the breach and run a dry patch between shots....ideally i'd like to try both but, again, i'm short on bullets at the moment. I have 300 grain dead centers and scorpion pt golds so maybe i'll try a 5 shot with them. thanks again

I may have to put a scope on my KP1 and head back to Nebraska this December. I miss that December ML season. I wonder when they changed the regs to allow powered scopes. I wish Wyoming would get some ML seasons.

Good luck on the shooting.

well guys....my impatience got the best of me today...i just had to shoot

i started with a dirty bore that i ran dry patch down.

i shot 4 times....shots 1,3, and 4 were all basically touching...cloverleaf!! shot 2 was an inch or so above the cloverleaf. 240 grain dead center with 110 grains BH209

i pulled the breach after each shot, and ran a dry patch, and let the barrel cool. I indexed the sabot each time. my rifle ports align perfectly with the petals so that was nice. i was using the plastic bullet seater that comes with the dead center bullets. however, on shot 2, i seated the bullet with the metal end of the ramrod by mistake. maybe i made a dent in the lead or something, but I'm going to attribute this as the cause of this shot being the flier for my own sanity lol Shots 1, 3, and 4 were prepared exactly the same. to say i'm VERY happy is an understatement....now on to 200 yards!!

i'll post the target tomorrow ...

here's the target

Yours has porting?

Many people report an occasional flier with ported MLs.... Is it true?..im not sure since ive never had a ported ML barrel.

BTW your groups are very nice....good job....and in mine a bore fouled with a few shots of BH209 gives me better accuracy. Ive made 50shot runs with no ill effects and ZERO cleaning.