Added some bullet expansion pics
 

I finally got all the pics together from the Knight sisters and bullets from 40-50cal shot from my 45, 50 and 54. There are quite a few so im just posting a link to them.

http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ion%20results/

All bullets went through this test media with slight variations as needed to stop the bullets. The last 2 books were always nearly dry and stopped all but 2 or 3 bullets. The Barnes Original .458 300gr Semi Spitzer proved to be a real challenge to stop it. I finally was able to recover one.




Some were just devastating on the media and a few made it all the way through.

This is actually the 45LC 250gr GoldDot Hunting Series with a mild charge....IMO one of the best bullets for a youth type load or when a "magnum" charge isnt needed or desired.

Impressive pictures.

What sabot are you using for the .458 diameter bullet? Is this for .50 caliber or .54 caliber rifle?

MMP 50x.458 for all my .458 bullets. Occasionally other sabots will work such as Crushribs for .452 bullets and in one of my 54s i might be able to use the Harvester 54x.452 sabot since they are loose using a .452 bullet.

This is good to know, especially for .54 caliber because you would like to use a larger bullet than .452 diameter.

Thanks for the good info.

Nice results GM........I have heard you should be careful with those photo bucket links as there are ways to look into all your photos off any link. Is that true I'm not sure but thought i'd pass it along.

I dont post anything there that would concern me but yes its a good idea just to post the pics and make the album/s private.

Even then if someone REALLY wants in they will get in....eventually.

The Harvester is a bit loose in my LK93 54 but the MMP is just right. My GMB54 is a bit tighter bore. Some of the older Knight 54s do have a slightly larger bore. Sofar the 300gr Scorpion PT Golds have been my favorite 54x45 but using a MMP sabot.

I prefer shooting 50cals though in my 54s or conicals. The 50A&E 300gr GoldDot Hunter with just 80-100gr in the LK93 is great and the GMB54 handles the hotter loads better. Its a great bullet at a good price.

I do really like my Barnes Original .458s though, they dont seem to ever fail and expand very well over a wide fps range. I just hate the price. Hawks Bullets offers a similar bullet for a little less.

Here is why i love the Barnes Original .458 300gr Semi Spitzer. It is one of the most dependable lead and copper bullets ive ever shot.

Ever see an entrance pic like this?


Just a couple inches in and the damage to the particle board and phone book.

The big hole in the middle is the Barnes Original .458 300gr SS


Plus penetration is massive. My first 2 bullets went all the way through leaving this kind of wound channel and a nice hole in the final board until i added another book.

Here is a short vid of the Rem385gr CLHP made for 500S&W/50 Beowulf with i think 110gr. Its not the most "dramatic" impacts of the day but if i can get the accuracy i want, it will be my main 54x50 option. Expansion is very nice and uniform. The two pic i have of them AFTER shows one that hit the wood on the bottom of the books but it still held on to over 340gr and good expansion. The other was a perfect hit in the media and a near perfect mushroom including over 370gr retained weight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQHZfEXwYY

This it what it looks like before shooting. This one is the non crimp groove version and the same 50cal bullet used in some Remington shotgun slugs and 50 Beowulf loads. So it is designed to function at a similar fps as many MLs can achieve. Roughly 1800fps, i doubt most 54s could drive them too hard and make them fail. So far not one has failed but im still looking for that magic combo for best accuracy.

Before


After

I like your thinking on bullet penetration, expansion and testing. That is a torture test, but certainly a lot toughter than lungs. I have shot a lot of the Barnes SS 300g with CR sabot in my Savage. I think they are excellent on big things hitting them in the shoulder, like elk or nice big bucks. I know they have excellent BC, and therefore shoot 200 yards no problem with the right powder (BH or smokeless). I also think after killing maybe 8 whitetails with them, that they are "too tough", i.e. don't expand quick enough especially on lung shots. I have since switched over to Barnes 300g .458 45/70 bullets (same an a Barnes MZ, but .458 instead of .452), and they expand quickly and are very devistating, usually, quick kills with good bullet placement of course. The 300g Barnes Origonal will shoot lengthwise thru a deer, they are very very tough bullets. Made very well and super accurate. Chap

there is a name i haven't seen for a while . Welcome Back Chap!

Very cool pics! Thanks!

Thank you Woodtick, it has been a while. I thought I would check back in and see how the Forum brothers are doing, any new powders, any new bullets to talk about. I've not done much shooting in a while and wanted to start doing a little, my son got married 4/17/10 and moved into a rental farm house that has shooting range 50 yards or so from his door steps, so I thought I would get an update to what the gang is shooting now.
Chap

I use the .452 CR for both .452 and .458 bullets, they are tight in the .458 but with smokeless and BlackHorn, you need the tight fit and a lot of pressure to set the bullet on the charge. The CR sabot are cheaper than the MMP also, not a big deal, but for some that need "cheap good shooting", can't beat a CR Sabot over a Gold Dot 300g in my mind. Chap

I do like the GoldDots and UniCores but as long as i can get Partitions for less than $25 for 50, "hard to beat" is relative to current availability. :D

Wideners has them now for roughly $22-24 a box of 50 in .429 and 45 so i stocked up.

Speer is behind on other contracts atm and the new DeepCurls are not the easiest to find in the sizes i want. Locally though i can get some of the 45LC-250gr and 50-300gr GoldDot Hunters and the older 45-300gr UniCore soft points occasionally.

Normally for the price GoldDots are very hard to beat and the 50A&E Hunter i get locally is fantastic in my 54s. Now if i could just find some GoldDot 40-180gr at a good price i would be really happy.

Crushribs are pretty good and for a few bullets/guns are my favorites but i buy large quantity at a time and Harvester wont match the bulk pricing i get from MMP and charge me shipping. Plus they dont sell any 54x50s. A guy locally sells Hornady/MMP 45x40s for under $6/50 and Harvester Smooths at the same price but the 45x40 Crushribs are more and i really do like them for the hottest 45 loads. Locally i dont see much if any price difference if i need something right away.

A Nosler Partition for $25 for 50, where is Wideners? That is an excellent price. Thank you for the info on Speer. DeepCurls, have not heard of them, will have to check them out. Chap

gleason.chapman

Chap, Speer is just changing the name of the Gold Dot to 'Deep Curl' + adding a bunch more calibers to the list of bullets - including rifle bullets....

http://www.speer-bullets.com/whatsnew/newproducts.aspx

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm...81|292|327|683

The 44s are under another link in the Nosler section. The 260gr and 300gr 45s are still in stock at $23 and $24 per 50.

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm...81|292|327|685 $21,60 per 50 and still in stock.

Ive bought enough to last me a LONGGG time. :D

As SabotLoader said they changed a few things at Speer. DeepCurls are replacing the Handgun Hunting versions and expansion is a bit more controlled than the Defense line up....basically a shallower hollow point with the plating curled in.....depending on application.

Its mostly just a rename than anything else major except more options. I want to try the .475 275gr just for fun since i have the sabots and the 325gr XTPs always throw a flier.

Oh, OK. Wonder why they are doing that if they can't keep up with demand? Thanks Mike. Chap

Wow, Nosler Partition HG (hand gun) 300g for $24 for a box of 50, never thought I would see that again. That is a lot cheaper than Barnes .458 45/70 Flat Nose, Barnes SKU 45843. I love
the Nosler partition ans shot them for 3 or so years. Will have to go back to them. Thanks again for the link. Chap

Chap

Part of the reasoning behind Widners sale is that Nosler is no longer going to offer the Handgun Partitions... They will continue to make and sale the .458/300 grain partitions... but the 451's are gone.

And if you notice the price on Wideners for the Partition 300gr .458, you will see its over $48 per 50. So that appears to be correct.

Ive heard from other sources too that the Partition handgun series is basically gone.

As for Speer, they have contracts including military and other ammo companies they are trying to fill/complete. SO we re loaders or ML shooters are still waiting for our part of the pie.

They announced the DeepCurls series last year and i still cant get a single box with the new label. My local gun shop still cant get any but they do have a few of the older "Unicore/GoldDots". They cant get any 40s over 180gr either and the only 180s they can get are XTPs.

Luckily i just scored 600 Monatana Gold 40-180gr JHPs for under $14/100 plus tax from a local LLC reloader. Beats the hell out of $20+ for the 40-180 XTPs and IMO its a better bullet.

Even the gun show yesterday had very little heavier 40-45 caliber bulk bullets but i did score 100 .458-325gr FTX bullets for only $35 OTD.

Gm54-120

I just bought four boxes of the 40/180 Gold Dots @ Wholesale Sports yesterday - so they are starting to resurface in the Pac Northwest again. Still in the Gold Dot box.

Also when the Gold Dots were listed on the Speer Web Site they were always listed as a Handgun Hunting bullet - not a home defense bullet or personal protection bullet.

Are there not some new rules/regulatons about what and how a 'Home Defense' or 'Personal Protection' bullet has to preform. A good friend of mine is a Concealed Weapons instructor and he indicated to me the other day that you might/should not shoot hand loaded bullets for home defense as you might find yourself in court.

The current or soon to be current 452/250 'Deep Curl' will have the same deep hollow point and the 300 grain will continue with the shallow nose to raise BC of the bullet.

sabotloader

You are correct, it isnt a good idea to use your own hand loads for home defense BUT i have a LLC reloader that will load whatever bullet i want and make it harder for me to suffer that possible liability.

If/When asked you answer, " This is what the gun shop recommended and so i bought it (loaded ammo) from them". I dont know anything about how it works. ;)

If you use the same components as the original loaded ammo, proving malice could be difficult in court but all my HD ammo is bought not hand loads with records to back it up.

I have seen ammo companies use the GoldDots and label them as Home Defense and Speer used to separate them on their website too into Hunting and Defense categories.

Gm54-120

Thanks for the information.. i really wonder how many Americans even know this information or the possibilites of the liabilities that go along with the use of the different ammunition.

I am actually very passive/restrained about using lethal force and will retreat into the "safe" room if confronted. If you attempt to enter that part of the home all bets are off. I gave you a chance to leave alive and you failed to take it.

There will be a shotgun with "approved" loads aimed at the door and a backup option if that failed.

This is only how i feel about defending MY home/life, i fully support how you want/need to defend yours.

Thanks for all the wisdom on this. Chap

I had not heard anything about this. What is too lethal an SD load or somewith with a gun shooting back at you?
Chap