I was really surprised to see how far the Lehigh traveled. The test shown above really backs the theory on the Lehigh/European design.

Once the Lehigh hit's liquid the petals shear and sever arteries and produce a severe amount of trauma to the animal. Then the bullets keeps traveling at bore size diameter. Pretty much the same as the Nosler with the extra shock of the petals creating lacerations inside the chest cavity.

The other benefit like the Nosler the Lehigh holds 100% of weight retention after the petals shear. I have seen many test's to back that. Frontier Gander, Sabotloader, John and my personnal findings with using the bullets on Hogs, Deer and Mouflan.

I think the SST guy's get caught up in a poor bullet performance and think it's really good. The SST/Shockwave are very in consistent on game. One day they explode on game and create the Trauma like the Lehigh. The next day they plow thru like the Nosler and dont expand at all. That's when there are no blood trails and lost Deer/game.

Most people think any bullet will kill Deer as long as you make a good behind the shoulder shot. Well, i disagree 100%. You need a good reliable/consistent bullet in order to achieve this. A bullet that not only causes damage but also penetration to cause damage thru the animal you are harvesting. And also will leave a blood trail when the animal decides to run dead.

Ballistic Gel, water bottle test's etc, are a starting point no doubt. But nothing beats in the field results. I much rather see how the bullet performs on game. I would nevr use a bullet on a special hunt that i was not sure that would perform 100% like i expected it to. Even if i didn't do what i was suppost to either. (make a killing shot)

Bullets that i feel 100% that can do the job on Elk, Deer, Moose right now are listed below in order.

1-Lehigh 200grn and up for Deer. 250grn and up for Moose and Elk.

2-275grn Parker ballistic extremes for Deer and Elk and Moose. The 250grn has not shown any thing good in my opinion.

3-The 260 PR DeadCenter for all animals listed. The 220grn works really well on Deer.

4- Barnes MZ Expander, excellant hollow point bullet.


Bullets that i have not used that look like winners in my book.

1- Nosler in 250grn and up on deer and Elk.

2-Gold Dots in 250grn and up.

Bullets that i would not use on game.

1-PowerBelts

2-Barnes TMZ or any pointy tipped Barnes bullet.

3- Hornady SST'S/Shockwaves. Though probably the most accurate bullets, performance is poor and very inconsistent.

In order to find the best setup for yourself change is a must. If you dont wanna change then good luck with what you got. I have changed bullets 5 times in the last eight years. I'm constantly looking for ways to have an upper hand in the field. Of couse everything here is my opinion only. If you find other wise, that's great for you.:)

no pointy tipped barnes? why not? they do excellent.

They havent for me and a friend. I will say they were only used with two 777 pellets. Maybe not enough velocity to get them to expand properly. The MZ expanders worked at all velocities that i have used.

thise poibt barnes only was pushed by 105gr pyrodex and hit a deer at 175 yards. Point barnes open up greatly.




What did you shoot before the lehighs?

MD

I really am not a fan of the pointy bullet either, but it just my opinion.

You shot those @ 175 and they worked great!!! and a pointy Barnes will work great @ the longer ranges, when it has lost enough velocity to be in the 'range of operation'.

Where I have had problems and other have also is at the close ranges - 20-30-40 yards.... We load these pointy bullets up to be a good bullet out to 200 yards, but the velocity they have @ 20-30-40 is so great they tend to pencil their way through an animal. Not always! but on some % of shots - I prefer to have a bullet that will perform admirally well from 20 to 200.

wow i forgot all about this one. i did wet news paper test with the Black Thor and 90gr BH209 at 50 yards. 10" of water soaked news paper caught this one.





Those are t he 250gr Thor's. For elk i'll be using anywhere from 90-110gr BH209. These will great from 20 to 200 yards with no issues.

GD

Good Luck!

Got to thinking about the title of your post Ron (Sabotloader bullet loan). When you borrow bullets from Sabotloader, do you have to give them back when you're finshed with them? :p

Well, i had planned on it, but i've run into a snag. The one i punched paper with i can't find. The one i punched water with looks some used, and it gained 0.001" in diameter plus it lost near 1/3 of it's weight from being used like that.









Hopefully you have a couple you can 'loan' me so i can repay my loan from sabotloader.
If you don't help me out here, i just don't know what i am going to do.

Myself, i wasn't at all surprised to see how far they traveled. Sabotloader intimated i was to beware of their penetration capability. What surprised me was the lack of water and pieces of jug flying through the air, which i had seen with all the other bullets i tested. Another surprise to me was the fact that the last 4 jugs were just standing there with 45 caliber holes in them. All the other bullets knocked every jug they hit down. The brass bullet almost behaves like a solid, or an armor piercing bullet.

This paragraph doesn't make any sense to me at all. From what i witnessed on the jugs, the brass bullet doesn't create much trauma at all. At any rate not near as much as an XTP, or a Gold Dot, or a Nosler. In the next line you write.........."plow through like a Nosler and don't expand at all. This is just plain absurd. The Nosler does expand and it does do all kind of blood shot damage, and it does leave a blood trail second to none.


Now you write a paragraph that makes sense, and one i can agree with.



This paragraph i mostly agree with, except for your # 1choice. Myself, i move your #1 bullet to the group labeled 'Bullets i would not use on game'. The only way i would use your brass bullet on game is if i was down to a choice between them and the sst. Then the brass bullet would get used . OK, maybe ahead of the power belts too.


I do find other wise. Change is not a must, especially when one changes to a lesser bullet. I have been killing critters using Nosler bullets for near 25 year, which i started after the kids left home, and i had a little extra dinero to spend on bullets. Today, no change is necessary, one can just stick with Nosler and do fine.
I am not using Nosler bullets at this writing. I chose to change for the fun of it, not because it is a must. XTP bullets kill deer just fine. Nosler bullets kill deer. Gold Dot bullets kill deer.

These three bullet smuck the water jugs, and blow water high into the air along with shreds/shards of jug stuff, and the sight is spectacular to see for this 'kid'. The brass bullet not so much.