Triumph BC LEMON?? (No just Fickle)
 

Wow did I have a bad day at the range.

Things went downhill fast even though it was a beautiful day. Sunny, light winds, mid 20's...nice.

I decided to shoot five 3-shot groups with different bullets that appeared to have promise at the 50 yard range.

Gun setup
Triumph Bone Collector Camo
Leupold 4-12 fine reticule with adjustable parallax
Leupold QR Base and Rings (Locktite used)



First group
285 Barnes Spitfire
with HPH-12 sabots
78 grains BH209 (weighed)
Federal 209A primers
Average velocity 1924fps
1.85" c-t-c (This was the good group)


Second group
300 Barnes MZ
with HPH-12
78 grains BH209 (weighed)
Federal 209A primers
Average velocity 1950 fps
2.9" c-t-c (disappointing)



Third group
250 Barnes MZ
with yellow hyper glide sabot
78 grains BH209 (weighed)
Federal 209A primers
Average velocity 1963fps
5.5" c-t-c (very very disappointing)


Fourth group
250 Barnes MZ
HPH-12 sabot
78 grains BH209 (weighed)
Federal 209A primers
Average Velocity 2018 fps
3.75" c-t-c


Fifth group
300 Shockwave
Hyper Glide sabots Yellow
78 grains BH209 (weighed)
Federal 209A primers
Average Velocity 1932 fps
7.5" c-t-c (HOLY CRAP!!)

I used this scope on my Knight ML's and I had no problems getting MOA groups.

Some groups with my Long Range Hunter


A nice group with my Disc Extreme with the same Leupold scope




I'm at a loss right now. In my mind a ML that shoots 3" to 7" groups on the bench is of no use to me. Yes I checked bases to make sure they were tight.

I used the same scope to shoot this group with my 22-250


I'm going to try it one more time then it's going to make a trip to T/C.

I see your sticking with same amount of powder, you will have to try adjusting that up or down, you should be vine. My b/c likes that barnes 250mz with 100gr of BH with supplied sabot (little tight) and reg. cci 209 primmer. Try that and see if it works.
GOOD LUCK

Im not saying this is the case, but mabey (UP) your load of BH and see what happens. And you cant go by what one ML likes to another, it just does'nt happen that way. Good Luck and let us know how you make out.
(BP)

Don't have a Triumph... have an T/C Omega. I also had no luck with the Barnes 250 MZ & 285 MZ with BH209. If you want to stay with Barnes offerings... I had good groups with the following in my Omega and my buddy's Encore with 90 - 100grs of BH209:

1. 245 Barnes Spit-Fire MZ with supplied yellow sabot or Harvester yellow sabot for boat tails.

2. 250 Barnes TMZ (the flat based bullet.. not the boat tail) and discard the EZ-load sabot it comes with... and use your HPH-12 instead.

Keep shooting...I think you just haven't found the right combo yet....

Good luck... Rob

I'm not giving up yet!!! However, I think it's a long shot that this gun will shoot 1.5" groups consistantly. I have never seen a gun go from shooting 5" to 7" groups down to 1".

Usually with my Knights I would get 1.75" to 2" groups and then I would tweek it down to a 1" MOA, by changing up primers, sabots, and powder charges.

BP: The 78 grain weighed is the same as 110 volume measured. This 78 grain load is sort of the bread and butter load for five of my ML's. So I thought it was a good starting point. Your point is well taken though.

I may try some Triple 7 powder and see how this shoots.

I would suggest trying different powders and maybe different charges, but I don't have a Triumph so I am not of much help. Just keep trying different things and something will work.

OK...life is getting better, my Triumph isn't a tomato stake it appears to be fickle.

I thought about it for awhile and measured up some more Blackhorn 209 loads.

75 grains, 85 grains, and a couple 90 grains. (weighed not volume)

After digging around in my containers I found some Barnes 250 grain boattail blue tip with yellow sabots. I discounted them earlier because they measured 0.504" in diameter and I didn't think I could get them down the barrel. Also they didn't shoot worth beans in my Knight ML's so I wasn't too excited about them.

Group 1 (50 yards)
Barnes 250 TMZ blue tip with HPH-12 sabot
90 grains of Blackhorn
Federal 209A primers
Average Velocity 2162 fps
Measured 1.6" c-t-c

Group 2 (50 yards)
285 Barnes Spitfire with HPH-12 sabot
85 grains of Blackhorn
Federal 209A primers
Measured 2" c-t-c

Because these were loading up so well I thought I would try loading up the 250 grain with the yellow sabot that measured 0.504" in diameter.

Group 3 (50 yards)
Barnes 250 TMZ blue tip with yellow sabot
90 grains of Blackhorn
Federal 209A primers
Measured 0.75" c-t-c (We are moving in the right direction)


Group 4 (50 yards)
Barnes 250 TMZ blue tip with yellow sabot
75 grains of Blackhorn
Federal 209A primers
Measured 0.50" c-t-c (Now I'm a happy camper)



My chony took a crap on me after the first group so I don't have velocities for the other three groups.

Anyway, I'm happy again and I'll try the remaining 250 boattail's out at 100 yards and report back.

Make sure you try diferent sabots. Usually Blackhorn likes a tight fitting sabot. My Endeavor really likes a 250 gr. shockwave with a Harvester short black sabot and 77 gr. weighed of BH209. Give this a try and see how this does. This load is usuall very accurate in most T/C's. (Omega, Encore, Triumph.

+1 on switching up powders and powder charges. I have a ML that when I first bought it shot 6 - 8" "groups" (if you can call them that) with T7 pellets. I switched to T7 FFG loose and immediately the groups shrunk to about 4". Switched to T7 FFFG loose and played around with the powder charges, and now it shoots 1.5". Some rifles just don't like a certain powder or a certain charge- you need to experiment more before you junk it....

You must have been typing at the same time I was. I just read your new post. The .504 Sabot/Bullet combo is exactly what my Endeavor likes. That's what the Shockwave with the Harvester Short Black sabot measures. Congratulations on finding something that works. I have heard the Triumph is a great gun and usually very accurate when you find the right load.

SHulion

Yes I'm a very happy guy. At least I have something to build on. A light went on in my head when I went to the Cablela's website and read this review.

"Just tried these 250 gr. T-EZ's today in my T/C Bone Collector. Amazing accuracy! Sighting in a remounted scope and started at 25 yds and first two rounds went through the same hole. Couldn't believe it so I put a hole sticker over the hole and fired a thrid round and sure enough, right throuh the same hole again. Moved to 50 yds and largest group was 1". I was using two pellets of Pyrodex for the intitial sight in. I only had a few of the Barnes sabots with me and soon ran out of them but I can't wait to try them with 3 pellet loads next weekend. The Shockwave's I've been using produced no better than 3" groups at 50 yds and 6"-7" groups at 100 yds. T-EZ's load very easy and seat consistently without requiring a superhuman effort. Barnes made a believer out of me! I just ordered a healthy supply for an upcoming late season deer hunt in Ohio"

This guy's review mirrors my experience this morning. "The Shockwave's I've been using produced no better than 3" groups at 50 yds and 6"-7" groups at 100 yds."

I thought hey....mabe I'll try some of these.

Anyway, I'm not going to stick it in the ground. It's feels just too darn good in my hands.

I would have said your sabots were your biggest problem. Thats what happened to me. (ex. my range reports). Just got to find the right load.

50 Calty

I'm thinking the right sabot matched with a boattail bullet. Blackhorn powder typically likes a heavy tight fitting bullet/sabot.

Yes and that's where the fun comes in - and the satisfaction. Once you find the right load it tends to put a smile on your face. BTW, those yellow sabots that come with the shockwaves IMO are junk.

AMEN bronko22000! Thats what gave my bone collector the problem.

question: Does the BC ramrod have to go in a certain way? I was playing with one at the sportsmans warehouse today and while the wrist area is chunky on the stock, the ramrod gave me pure hell.

Them boys sure get pushy when they leave the rope down and have you standing there for 10 minutes staring at the rifle rack. I finally said screw it, grabbed a traditions pursuit and looked it over and the guy approached me a few minutes later asking me go stay behind the rope ( which wasnt set up)

May want to run some JB Bore paste in that barrel too.

MountainDevil54

May want to run some JB Bore paste in that barrel too. Yep...standard practice when I get a new ML. Gave it about 15 nice even strokes with some JB paste, prior to firing it.

I'm pretty sure I'm narrowing down to what it likes and what it doesn't like. Things I learned today.

Likes

1) Barnes Boattail bullets. (just the opposite of what my Knight ML's like...flatbase all the way in them)
2) Modest load of Blackhorn
3) A very tight fit. 0.504" Diameter (not 0.500" like the 300 SW with hyper glide)
4) Bore swabbed after every shot even though I'm using Blackhorn.

Hates

1) 300 grain Shockwave bonded bullets with Hyper Glide sabot
2) Hyper Glide sabot with any bullet

The ramrod will only go in one way. It has the power "t" handle. Thats weird klundin, mine shot fine without swaping in between shots.

The only reason I swabbed between shots is that I was thinking of trying the 0.504" bullet/sabot and thought a clean bore would be easier seating the bullet then a dirty barrel. Also when I hunt I like to clean the barrel so I don't have to worry at all about having a loaded gun with a dirty barrel for prolonged periods.

It was a productive day today at the range.

After some tweeking I shot my first sub-MOA group with my new TC Triumph Bone Collector. After shooting 5.5" to 7.5" groups yesterday I really thought it would be impossible to get this gun to even get a 1.5" group. It knows what it likes and rejects everything it doesn't.

This was the winning combo to punch a 0.76" c-t-c group.
250 TMZ with yellow sabot
85 grains of BH209
Fed 209A primers
Average velocity 2100 fps

Nice looking group. Isn't great when it all comes together?

WOW. Looks like you found the sweet spot. That should be a great round for hunting. Flat shooting and that barnes wil lhold together great and leave a big hole in what ever you shoot. Congratulations.

Good work there Klundin, and congratulations. Feels good, huh? You sure won't have to worry about that bullet's performance on game.

Semisane

You sure are right on that. I have seen the handy work of several Barnes MZ's on deer. Wow what a hole. Many times the deer look like it was shot with a high velocity golf ball. I'm a very happy man right now.

I had to send my Bone Collector back to get the barrel straightened. But since i got it back, its a tack driver with harvester short black sabots, 250g tez, or shockwaves, and 90-115 gr Bh209.

Like everything else in life there's always a bad one once in awhile, however this would be the first complaint I've ever heard about a bone collector by anyone on any site....thinking about picking up my second one and passing mine on to my son....

Ive only heard of one other,on MM, with a bad barrel, thats how i figured what was wrong with mine. :guiness:

revpilot

Did it shoot like a shotgun?? What kind of groups were you gettting.

heres the old post about it......


http://huntingnet.com/forum/black-po...r-back-tc.html