Gold Dots In The .45 Renegade
 

I had time for a short range session after the hunt last Sunday, and my plan was to try sabotless .452 300 grain Gold Dots in the .45 GM Renegade. I had tried starting one of them in the bore at home by sticking about one-quarter length of the bullet into the bore, and it looked like it might fit.

Well, that was a BIG mistake. At the range I dumped 85 grains of GOEX down the tube, then started the bullet. I got about a third of the bullet length into the muzzle with my thumb, then switched to my short starter. With a mighty push and a hard bump I got about another third into the muzzle.

Well I may not be all that smart, but sometimes I do know when to stop - and this was one of those times. So I didn't bump it again. I sure didn't want a jacketed bullet stuck in the bore below the muzzle. I had visions of trying to pound it down with a brass rod and a hammer to get it seated on the powder so I could shoot it out.

With just about a quarter-inch of the nose of the bullet sticking out of the muzzle, there was enough to grab with a pair of vice grip pliers. It took a little twisting and tugging, but I got it out. Whew! Disaster averted.

OK, on to plan two. I can't complain about the results I've gotten with 200gr./.400 XTPs, but I'd rather shoot Gold Dots if they will match the accuracy of the XTPs.

I pulled out my remaining hoard of 210gr./.410 Gold Dots, and shot three of them at 50 yards in Harvester H4540B smooth sabots over 85 grains of GOEX FFFg. They were very tight starting and each time I started them in the bore one of the sabot petals looked like it squeezed or stretched out and protruded farther above the bullet than the other three petals. Here's the resulting target.





That's not bad. Pretty close to what I get with the XTPs at 50 yards. I didn't mind the hard loading so much, but those stretched sabot petals bothered me.

So I sacrificed three more Gold Dots and loaded them with Crush Rib (H5440BR) sabots. There was no petal deformity upon loading and they went down the bore easier - what Sabotloader would call "just right". Here's the target.




I was really surprised the group not only didn't improve, but didn't match the first group. These dang things are just a mystery.

As soon as I can get ahold of a fresh box of Gold Dots I'm going to try this again and try going up and down five and ten grains in search of that elusive one-hole-group. Might even locate some .451 bullets to try sabotless. (Some guys just never give up. :confused0024:)

Thats some good shootin Semi. Those gold dots would do the trick on a whitetail. I'm gonna keep my eye open for some. I think I may have a rifle that will shoot em pretty good.

Semi

Jees! Semi the only reason group two open a bit on you was because your were fatiqued from all the work you had done prior to shooting the 41's...

I did find 3 boxes of them if you need a box but by the time a mail them to you they are a bit expensive...

That is still some good shooting. I think I will throw a Simmons Pro Diamond 4X on my stainless steel .45. I have the mount already. All I have to do is get another scope.

As for shipping bullets I shipped out two boxes of ball-et using the USPS priority mail boxes. I got the small one and it shipping for $4.99 . Kind of hard to beat that.

cayugad

I mailed a box of 41's to New York last week using the USPS priority box - got there in three days and it was a flat rate $4.99 also but when you add that to the price of the Gold Dots $24.99 + tax that I have to pay - all that starts to add up.... But those flat rate priority boxes are a great deal....

I understand the cost of the bullets. Its shocking how the price of them and even the availability of certain bullets have changed. I was trying to place an order for sabots, another scope, and some bullets, and nothing but the scope was in stock...

cayugad

Last week while I was in Kennewick - I stopped by the Wholesale Sports Store (use to be Sportsman Warehouse) and I was looking for the 41's... They had a great supply of Speer so I talked to the sales manager and he indicated that the company had gotten a very large shipment from Speer and it was spread out over their 41 stores in the west. I was actually glad to here that Speer was supplying normal retail outlets even before going to the large internet suppliers. Speer is just down the hill from me and I know they added two more shifts to production - but they also just got 14 mil contract to supply the French Government with Gold Dots - so I thought they would shift away from the normal consumer but maybe one shift is dedicated to us...

Thanks Sabotloader, but I have some on the way when my sister-in-law visits from Georgia in a week or two. She scored two boxes for me at a shop in her area.

When you get that new ProDiamond Cayugad, you may as well order two or three of them to save on shipping. You know you're going to need them. :s2:

Semi

That is exactly my experience with both the regular blue and the crush rib in my Elite 45.... The Extreme 45 that I had loaded fine with the CR. I have this Remington 700ml 45 cal of Tom's here and I am hoping to shoot it today so I plan on trying the 41's in it also. I think they will fit real well in it.

Semi - curiosity has me now. Why would you rather shoot the gold dots out of your rifle when the xtps are shooting well for you? I shot a few deer with that 200 gr 400 xtp and they really do the job well.

Well Bronko, I really can't complain about the XTPs based on the two deer I've shot with them, but I still suspect the Gold Dot would be a little better.

The second XTP I shot into a deer (high neck shot) was not really a test of the bullet. Even a .45 ball in that location would have dropped the deer on the spot. On the first deer I intentionally shot mid-chest because I wanted to see how the bullet performed. That was the one in my "bullet performance report" (http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...grain-xtp.html).

That one did everything you could ask of a bullet, but it might have fragmented somewhat. Look closely at the internal entrance wound on the left side of the 7th picture in that post and notice the holes to the right of the main entrance hole. I say it might have fragmented because I don't know if those were caused by bullet fragments or bone fragments. There was also a puncture wound through the rear section of the off-side shoulder that exited, which I strongly suspect was a bullet fragment.

So I have to wonder what would happen if that bullet hits a big bodied buck in the shoulder/leg bone. Would it penetrate the way I know a Gold Dot will? I've never had pieces of Gold Dots break off and cause damage outside of the intended would channel.

All in all, I wouldn't hesitate to continue using the XTPs. But if the GDs can match them for accuracy I'll use the GDs.

Sorry for the long-winded response, but I wanted to explain my thinking.

Semi

Shot some 41 Gold Dots from the Remington 45 today. They did load a bit better than in the Knight. I was at the farm and the ground was saturated so I probed around abit in the dirt looking to recover some of the bullets... Found two of them - that was enough for me... Excellent expansion - not as pretty and uniformed as your example but they certainly would have done the job. I think the weight retention will be really high also. I can not see where they lost anything...

OK - now you have me thinking. So you are saying that you believe the GDs to be a bit stronger than the XTPs? (at least as far as holding together). I may have to try them if that's the case. I too have no complaints with the XTPs. But then again, I never aim for the shoulder.

Nice shooting Semi!! I'm kind of in the same boat as you with the 200 XTP's - they have performed well for me, and I've never lost a deer with them, but I'm always looking for something even better. If you check out the bottom of the first page of my post from a month ago

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...vered-xtp.html

You'll see what happened to a 200 XTP hitting bone at high velocity. In this case it hit the spine and fragmented badly. It did, however, still retain enough of its mass to penetrate almost the full length of the deer. I was just not too happy about picking tons of lead fragments out of the meat.

So I'm still looking for that "perfect" bullet.....

bronko22000

This is only my opinion and I am one that really thought the 200XTP to be a GREAT bullet... the Gold Dot has proven to be much more durable that the the Honady's. The Gold Dot is a bonded contolled expansion bullet, along the lines of a Nosler Partiton - surely not a stong as the Nosler, but close.

I would suggest before you get the .41/210 you try a few and see if they will load for you. They also make a .40/180 grain Gold Dot but I have a prblem getting them to be accurate at longer ranges in a 1/28 twist (they are to short). In my Knight 45 with a 1/30 twist they are lights out.

Sabot - I am pretty sure the GM LRH barrels in .45 are a 1:30 twist. My thoughts exactly on the loading issue. I don't enjoy bearing down on the ramrod to seat a bullet. I do like a tight bullet fit but not too tight that I have to fight with it.
You know, Semi has my address. You think he might send me 5 or so to try out?
After all - he dosen't need anymore this year now that his freezer is full. : )

bronko22000

PM me your address - I will send you some and some sabots... Semi did the same for me so I am just returning the favor.... sorta like paying it forward....

I'll send you some .40/180's also - they will shoot great in a 1/30 GM barrel

Hey Bronko, watch out for that offer from Sabotloader. He's probably going to include a bill in the package. :s2:

I thought I remembered trying some 180 gr/.400 XTPs out of my 1:30 twist back when I first got the LRH barrel. I just checked my target file and, sure enough, I had. I pushed them pretty hard with 105 grains of Pyrodex RS. The target is below. Looks like I'm going to have to try them a longer ranges (still have most of the box). If they group that well at 100 yards I'll definitely be ordering some 180 grain Gold Dots.

Semi

Dang Semi! that is semi respectable - those 180's shot pretty darn good... with that kind of group why even fool with the 41-210's - yike that was a dumb question ti the great experimenter that you are....

No bills - who knows where he came up with that one but remember he is! semi sane!

Sabotloader, waaayyyy back then (Oct '08) I never even considered a 180 grain XTP as a possible deer bullet. I was shooting "proper" 300 grainers out of the Mustang and 410 grain Hornady Great Plains out of the New Englander for deer. Those were my "go to" hunting guns. Everything else was for playing. Didn't even use those dinky 240 grain XTPs the other guys in my group were using. I've since learned a lot from you guys on this forum and have become more open minded (senile?) in my old age.