do we have to argue over brands???
 

im pretty new here and therefore may not have the seniority to talk about this but there seems to be a never ending debate about cva vs tc . here is my limited experience
of the people i hunt with we have a mixed bag of artillery and ammo
dad; tc hawkin 54
step dad ; knight disc 50
bobo; knight rb 50
jimmy ; black diamond 50
travis; cva wolf 50
parker; cva hunter bolt 50
eric; traditions black diamond knock off ?? 50
fat kyle; cva optima thumb hole and ss 50
brother; cva deer stalker carbine 50
me; black diamond, z5 omega, had my brothers rifle and once a cva bobcat all 50's
and we all kill deer, get decent groups, and have a generally good time hunting or shooting together even though we dont all hunt together at the same times and we have never had any problems with our guns except the tradions we cant find parts for and the bobcat was really worth the 60 dollars i paid for it at walmart. i think thats a pretty decent show of weapons for some poor hick kids and a couple old farts and we dont argue about what the other is carrying or the powder or bullet they are shooting there are good and bad ones in every run the thing that matters is we are all hunters and come together to do and talk about what we love especially in this era of anti's. well thats my 2cents let the messages and the you dont have a clues roll in

An open-minded attitude like that WILL NOT BE TOLERATED RedNeckMike. Shame on you!

Half of those guys are using the wrong gun. The other half are using the wrong gun too. :s2::s2::s2:

thats the way it seems semi my preference is a tc but hell a knight at the right price or a cva at the right price and they all have a home

Heck, we have to argue about something. Can't argue politics here (we would probably all agree anyway). Can't argue about women because everyone knows redheads are superior so there's no room for argument.

with redheads attitudes its best to just yes dear em and forget it at least the ones i know lol

prefer blonds myself. Fake or real ones haha

I agree totally, and another thing if someone new wants to buy a cheap ML to start off that's great. I started with a cheap CVA Staghorn or was it a Eclips...for the $89 I spent, I killed a-lot of deer with it and I was happy We should'nt push a more expensive ML on them, mabey they cant afford one, in time when things get better they'll get one as they evolve into the sport. For now let's just help everyone as were here to do, whatever there shooting.
(BP)

good call breechplug and settin that kid up was a great thing to do

That's it Semi, Im putting my Wife on, she's a Blonde, I'd post a pic of her and it would porbably change your mind, but if I did I'd have a Red head!LOL!:busted:
(BP)

I sure like to read the good natured ribbing that goes on amung friends but I agree that all out fighting about the barrel of a gun is kinda rediculous.
I think it's great that people,myself included become loyal to a certian brand,it's all good.I recently sold my Encore and only own CVA now,I like the way the company is going and I will ride for a while.
As far as which is better,CVA of course,DUHH
And I'll fight about it

You drive a chevy???? Don't you know fords are better??

Debates/arguments about your particular brand, especially online and for better or worse, are here to stay. What truely bothers me is when it goes from a debate where the pros and cons of each are civily discussed, to name calling. Unfortunately again the internet seems to foster such things.

The thing that really gets old, is the same argument over and over. For example, I can't tell you how many times you see the thread started as "Is the 270 big enough for elk". A very long winded thread/argument always follows that changes no ones mind. I don't even click on those any more.

On the internet, just like in life, you have to learn to ignore the jerks (eaiser said than done!) I like websites that have a "block" button that allows you to block what certain posters say.

So I agree with your premis. For me if people will keep it civil and don't hijack threads, I can live with it.

I could care less what you shoot. I shoot what brand I want when I want. I post the results and if you don't want to read what I reported... that's all right also. When you argue a brand you argue your opinion. which rifle is the best you ask me? The one I am currently shooting. Who's opinion is right? Mine for me.

Treat all muzzleloaders with respect. Load them according to manufacturers recommendations. Keep maintenance up on the outside and inside of the muzzleloader. Shoot what the rifle likes not what you like. Read their manuals and understand them. But most of all have fun and be safe.

I personally think people by nature like to argue. Some more so then others of course. I personally refuse to argue. State your opinion, why you feel it is right, but to go and look for an argument... sorry I got better thinks to do... Like shooting my White, T/C, Knight, CVA, Remington, Traditions, or Lyman's rifles.

Good for you. I agree. Also because somebody likes something does not mean they are putting the other fellows choice down. People putting thing into what someone said that is not what they ment cause a lot of the problems. Lee

I started out with a $99 Traditions Deerhunter sidelock. It was poor quality and had a 8-10lb trigger but darned if I didn't kill a few dozen deer with it since I didn't know any better.

Truth is, if you are happy shooting 100 yds there is not a ML on the market that won't do the job and the deer won't know the difference. By the time the gun actually makes a difference in accuracy you are beyond the distances the average hunter shoots.

Of course, the marketers for the companies don't want you to know that. They want you to think you'll miss Mr. Big if you don't have their new $700 Whiz Bang.

Most of what is argued about are differences so small as to have questionable meaning outside the target range, or are related to preference more than performance.

What Cayugad said.

You use what works for you: I will not comment on your choice of brands. By the same token; i use what words for me.

I shoot CVA and Wolf and Lyman. I have a mixed family and each one has it's place in my hunting style. This is like Chevy/Ford/Mopar argument, lot of smoke! Arguing is healthy and you can get a ton of knowledge from it if you listen instead of getting all het up and firing back names and such! In Washington threy call this discourse.......

Put em' up, Put em' up.....i'll fight ya' with my hands behind my back.........

ya-all

This strictly my opinion so you already no what that is worth. There really is only one person (maybe another 1/2 but he is mostly alright) that continually stokes the fire on this subject. I think a lot of us realize that and realize that he will continually do so. For my part i try to very hard to ignore him here and everywhere else he visits because it the same thing over and over.

There are, have beem. and will continue to be legitiment questions asked about CVA because of all the adverse print on the subject. I think if we will all give own honest opinion on the question asked (without getting on a soap box) that is all that can be asked. Our opinions might never coincide but that is exactly what opinions are... the person on the other end has to wade through the answers.

Just to be on record... my personal opinion of of early day CVA products is not very high. I had 3 different CVA's maybe 4 - I do not have any today. The old addage certainly applies - I often got what I paid for, plastic sights - uneven bore diameters - heavy duty shooting restrictions and others bothersome traits. But in defense of CVA - the barrel blowing up was never any greater concern that i have today with most any ML. And be sure that they did a fine job harvesting animals at the range I was shooting in those days.

And again on the record i really do not care what you are shooting if it works for you. My best friend and hunting partner shoots a CVA and PowerBelts - does that make him any less of a friend certainly not in my book. Would I reccommend a CVA friend, probably not, unless it would be one of the newer varieties that CVA is building today with the better barrel; and the only reason that I can/could do that is a member of this forum that i respect has told me they are so much better today. Even then i would still try to suggest other products - but it is still his/her choice.

Not to cause a problem just to explain how i personally feel. If this offends anyone please read over it and ignore it...

Personally, I learn a lot from debates. I learn nothing from arguments. If you keep your opinions respectful and keep an open mind, I think we all will learn.

Honestly, the only reason I come on here is to learn and to see harvests. I wouldn't have stuck around for 3-4 years if there wasn't any of that being put out here. The 'pot stirring' is only done by one, maybe two individuals so I mainly ignore their rants and move on.

Life is way too short to get all worked up over someone else's opinion.

Sabotloader - great post!

The only thing I would add is that often times the problem come not from discussing/debating the merits of one product vs another - that is human nature and healthy. The problem I see most often, and react to more then I should, is the predictable constant pathological hijacking of any thread to inject info on brand A when the question and discussion was specifically on Brand B. It then escalates from a discussion to a mud bog. And it starts almost exclusively from one source - a person back from a banning seeking desperately to be veiwed as an authority.

SteveBNy

Agreement... but is there any chance that you, I or any of us are going to change that. it is what it is, it is what it does or substitute 'he'... Ignore him as i try desperately to do, and then try to answer the intended question.

Seeing as how some of this started due to me making an acronym as a joke , though i think the roots that cause such defensiveness probably run much deeper. Let me also share my opinion. I have 2 CVA's. After I bought my kodiak pro I was not happy. It turned out to be a real lemon. I tried 4 times to get satisfactory customer service and felt that I was not treated fairly and actually treated like an embicel. So I was soured on CVA as a company. I have muzzleloaders from CVA,Knight,T/C,Remington,Traditions,Pedersoli and Lyman. I have 30 years experience shooting and messing around with them. I have come to prefer T'C or Knight. Well after all the CVA debates I felt I would give CVA another chance. I bought a Camo thumbhole stock accura. in 45 cal. On CVA's website it has a comparison between the accura and the triumph, as well as the kodiak pro and the omega. I own all 4 so I did my own comparison. I feel that T/C is a better gun, which it should be for the money. The accura is Ok but doesn't compare to the Triumph,( my opinion of course) at least not in the way they make it seem on their website. Anybody can shoot whatever they prefer. Opinions are just that, opinions. We should be able to give ours without being personally attacked. If someone says T/C is a piece of crap, that is their opinion. That shouldn't give cause to call that person an idiot. If someone doesn't like CVA that should be fine also, they are entitled to their opinion whether it is based on experience or just hearsay. Saying something about a product is different than saying something about a fellow forum member. Bragging about a certain product or putting down a certain product I can handle without a problem, but constantly pushing a product bothers me. So I guess we each have our areas that get to us. I like Barnes,777,blackhorn etc,etc,. I don't like APP,powerbelts ,etc etc. That's based on my years of trying them out and a lot of factors that might not be a factor for anyone else. Bottom line is that we should be able to disagree or share our personal opinions without it being a reason to choose sides and turn it into a character assasination. . I will stop here so the post doesn't turn into a book. I will respond to any comments or you can pm me if you would prefer not to make your response public. Breechplug, I like you even if you shoot a CVA:s2: Every once in a while i take a jab at a certain brand, don't take it personal. Although sometimes it's tempting to get MD on his high horse:s2:

All's good chetmarks and I know you did'nt direct your opinion about CVA's at me. Im not gonna take it personal anymore I know most everyone is just kidding when they say stuff directed at certain brands and that kind of kidding is fun. I myself had 2 problems with CVA and there ACCURA's when I purchased them, I could'nt believe what happened to two different one's but CVA fixed the problem FAST and they replaced both MLers with new ones and in one case sent me a SS/Camo for a SS/BK. Last night when I posted the new Topic about me selling the TC Triumph to the Kid I mentioned your name in it and since then I removed it and rewrote the Topic as it should have been written (befor you wrote this). your a Nice Guy also and I look forward to your replys on the Forum.
Ron (BP)

Again SL - good advice and will try to do.

I have no idea what thread you are referring to but I will say this:

1) I could give a flip what someone that I don't know thinks about me or my equipment, you could be argueing with a 12 year old kid...

2)This board isn't bad, visit some of the others, some of these guys really go at it...These guys are tame compared to some...

3)You want to drive someone crazy, post your experiences/opinions...If they want to argue, let them do so, don't respond...It takes 2 or more to argue...:)

Argue - Heck this is just honest disagreements. A deer would never know the difference as to whether it was shot with a TC or a CVA or a Knight, or whatever. They is just like cars, some good and bad in all of them.
But gee, if you want to really see some arguing, come on over to my house. Me and the wife usually have one brewing somewhere. All it takes is a little nudge to get one started. And I'm usually the one that does the nudging.

Comparisons will always be made, I do not think that is bad It can and should be done in an impersonal way.
I really believe that when some one starts a thread they should be left alone not high jacked some people ask questions and need answers not a bunch of unmentionable slopped on their thread.
I have been wondering if it is possible for the person that starts the thread to delete hijackers that come on that thread; if its not possible maybe if enough of us got together with the right people some thing could be done. Lee

You hit the nail on the head,it's 1 or 2 people doing the same thing over and over.the powers to be on this forum need to step in and squash it.i am new to this forum and enjoy it very much.and to be honest didn't register to see every thread turned into a CVA or bullet advertisment,especially when threads are started that make no mention of neither.

be nice to see some shooting posts from those who, 99% of the time just pick on certain people for what they shoot.

you could not be more wrong,it has nothing to do with what they shoot,it is how they ACT.

I read all the posts, and it seems like everyone agrees that T/C is best :D

Well I for one never agreed that TC was the best. It is just my PREFERENCE. In fact, looking at the MLs I have, the only true T/C I have is my new Cherokee. All the others have GM barrels, or custom stocks or whatever. None are totally T/C.
Fact is, my favorite ML right now is of unknown name and origin. It is all custom made, 50 cal, 1:48, is very light weight and shoots great. I picked it up at an auction for less than any of the other MLs I own. And I am sure it is worth much more than I paid for it.

I really like this forum and my hats off to the moderaters that spend so much thankless time. I think most of the guys here argue in good fun and poke fun most of the time. Heck i have 4 different brands and find good and bad in each one. I gave up on some forums as they get too hateful. Just enjoy what you shoot and take the faults of others with a grain of salt. I bet most here have more than one brand. Kind of like bullets and powder. Each enjoys something different. I do get helpful hints from a lot of guys here even though i have used ML for many years. Never too old to learn. thanks guys

Everyone drink a steaming hot cup of STFU! ;)

Why you old goat! :happy0001:

I am new to this site and am still undecided on the ml to purchase. I have until Dec. to make a decision and sight it in. My hat is off to all the members. I enjoy the good natured banter that goes on as to what ml brand to shoot. Sure there is a small portion of the membership that gets out of line but you decide on what to accept and disreguard.
I don't care if you shoot the bottom of the line ml or a several thousand dollar custom made, I look at your shooting ability and safety, you as an individual, and your hunting/range ethics and morals.
I know I will get an ml custom made using parts from all manufactures and will call it the forum night mare.