do we have to argue over brands???
01-13-2010, 04:03 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kerrville, Tx. USA
Posts: 2,722
You drive a chevy???? Don't you know fords are better??
Debates/arguments about your particular brand, especially online and for better or worse, are here to stay. What truely bothers me is when it goes from a debate where the pros and cons of each are civily discussed, to name calling. Unfortunately again the internet seems to foster such things.
The thing that really gets old, is the same argument over and over. For example, I can't tell you how many times you see the thread started as "Is the 270 big enough for elk". A very long winded thread/argument always follows that changes no ones mind. I don't even click on those any more.
On the internet, just like in life, you have to learn to ignore the jerks (eaiser said than done!) I like websites that have a "block" button that allows you to block what certain posters say.
So I agree with your premis. For me if people will keep it civil and don't hijack threads, I can live with it.
Debates/arguments about your particular brand, especially online and for better or worse, are here to stay. What truely bothers me is when it goes from a debate where the pros and cons of each are civily discussed, to name calling. Unfortunately again the internet seems to foster such things.
The thing that really gets old, is the same argument over and over. For example, I can't tell you how many times you see the thread started as "Is the 270 big enough for elk". A very long winded thread/argument always follows that changes no ones mind. I don't even click on those any more.
On the internet, just like in life, you have to learn to ignore the jerks (eaiser said than done!) I like websites that have a "block" button that allows you to block what certain posters say.
So I agree with your premis. For me if people will keep it civil and don't hijack threads, I can live with it.
01-13-2010, 05:59 AM
#12
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
I could care less what you shoot. I shoot what brand I want when I want. I post the results and if you don't want to read what I reported... that's all right also. When you argue a brand you argue your opinion. which rifle is the best you ask me? The one I am currently shooting. Who's opinion is right? Mine for me.
Treat all muzzleloaders with respect. Load them according to manufacturers recommendations. Keep maintenance up on the outside and inside of the muzzleloader. Shoot what the rifle likes not what you like. Read their manuals and understand them. But most of all have fun and be safe.
I personally think people by nature like to argue. Some more so then others of course. I personally refuse to argue. State your opinion, why you feel it is right, but to go and look for an argument... sorry I got better thinks to do... Like shooting my White, T/C, Knight, CVA, Remington, Traditions, or Lyman's rifles.
Treat all muzzleloaders with respect. Load them according to manufacturers recommendations. Keep maintenance up on the outside and inside of the muzzleloader. Shoot what the rifle likes not what you like. Read their manuals and understand them. But most of all have fun and be safe.
I personally think people by nature like to argue. Some more so then others of course. I personally refuse to argue. State your opinion, why you feel it is right, but to go and look for an argument... sorry I got better thinks to do... Like shooting my White, T/C, Knight, CVA, Remington, Traditions, or Lyman's rifles.
01-13-2010, 06:24 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
I could care less what you shoot. I shoot what brand I want when I want. I post the results and if you don't want to read what I reported... that's all right also. When you argue a brand you argue your opinion. which rifle is the best you ask me? The one I am currently shooting. Who's opinion is right? Mine for me.
Treat all muzzleloaders with respect. Load them according to manufacturers recommendations. Keep maintenance up on the outside and inside of the muzzleloader. Shoot what the rifle likes not what you like. Read their manuals and understand them. But most of all have fun and be safe.
I personally think people by nature like to argue. Some more so then others of course. I personally refuse to argue. State your opinion, why you feel it is right, but to go and look for an argument... sorry I got better thinks to do... Like shooting my White, T/C, Knight, CVA, Remington, Traditions, or Lyman's rifles.
Treat all muzzleloaders with respect. Load them according to manufacturers recommendations. Keep maintenance up on the outside and inside of the muzzleloader. Shoot what the rifle likes not what you like. Read their manuals and understand them. But most of all have fun and be safe.
I personally think people by nature like to argue. Some more so then others of course. I personally refuse to argue. State your opinion, why you feel it is right, but to go and look for an argument... sorry I got better thinks to do... Like shooting my White, T/C, Knight, CVA, Remington, Traditions, or Lyman's rifles.
01-13-2010, 06:27 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 1,408
I started out with a $99 Traditions Deerhunter sidelock. It was poor quality and had a 8-10lb trigger but darned if I didn't kill a few dozen deer with it since I didn't know any better.
Truth is, if you are happy shooting 100 yds there is not a ML on the market that won't do the job and the deer won't know the difference. By the time the gun actually makes a difference in accuracy you are beyond the distances the average hunter shoots.
Of course, the marketers for the companies don't want you to know that. They want you to think you'll miss Mr. Big if you don't have their new $700 Whiz Bang.
Most of what is argued about are differences so small as to have questionable meaning outside the target range, or are related to preference more than performance.
Truth is, if you are happy shooting 100 yds there is not a ML on the market that won't do the job and the deer won't know the difference. By the time the gun actually makes a difference in accuracy you are beyond the distances the average hunter shoots.
Of course, the marketers for the companies don't want you to know that. They want you to think you'll miss Mr. Big if you don't have their new $700 Whiz Bang.
Most of what is argued about are differences so small as to have questionable meaning outside the target range, or are related to preference more than performance.
01-13-2010, 06:38 AM
#15
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
I could care less what you shoot. I shoot what brand I want when I want. I post the results and if you don't want to read what I reported... that's all right also. When you argue a brand you argue your opinion. which rifle is the best you ask me? The one I am currently shooting. Who's opinion is right? Mine for me.
You use what works for you: I will not comment on your choice of brands. By the same token; i use what words for me.
01-13-2010, 06:54 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
I shoot CVA and Wolf and Lyman. I have a mixed family and each one has it's place in my hunting style. This is like Chevy/Ford/Mopar argument, lot of smoke! Arguing is healthy and you can get a ton of knowledge from it if you listen instead of getting all het up and firing back names and such! In Washington threy call this discourse.......
Put em' up, Put em' up.....i'll fight ya' with my hands behind my back.........
Put em' up, Put em' up.....i'll fight ya' with my hands behind my back.........
01-13-2010, 08:08 AM
#17
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
ya-all
This strictly my opinion so you already no what that is worth. There really is only one person (maybe another 1/2 but he is mostly alright) that continually stokes the fire on this subject. I think a lot of us realize that and realize that he will continually do so. For my part i try to very hard to ignore him here and everywhere else he visits because it the same thing over and over.
There are, have beem. and will continue to be legitiment questions asked about CVA because of all the adverse print on the subject. I think if we will all give own honest opinion on the question asked (without getting on a soap box) that is all that can be asked. Our opinions might never coincide but that is exactly what opinions are... the person on the other end has to wade through the answers.
Just to be on record... my personal opinion of of early day CVA products is not very high. I had 3 different CVA's maybe 4 - I do not have any today. The old addage certainly applies - I often got what I paid for, plastic sights - uneven bore diameters - heavy duty shooting restrictions and others bothersome traits. But in defense of CVA - the barrel blowing up was never any greater concern that i have today with most any ML. And be sure that they did a fine job harvesting animals at the range I was shooting in those days.
And again on the record i really do not care what you are shooting if it works for you. My best friend and hunting partner shoots a CVA and PowerBelts - does that make him any less of a friend certainly not in my book. Would I reccommend a CVA friend, probably not, unless it would be one of the newer varieties that CVA is building today with the better barrel; and the only reason that I can/could do that is a member of this forum that i respect has told me they are so much better today. Even then i would still try to suggest other products - but it is still his/her choice.
Not to cause a problem just to explain how i personally feel. If this offends anyone please read over it and ignore it...
This strictly my opinion so you already no what that is worth. There really is only one person (maybe another 1/2 but he is mostly alright) that continually stokes the fire on this subject. I think a lot of us realize that and realize that he will continually do so. For my part i try to very hard to ignore him here and everywhere else he visits because it the same thing over and over.
There are, have beem. and will continue to be legitiment questions asked about CVA because of all the adverse print on the subject. I think if we will all give own honest opinion on the question asked (without getting on a soap box) that is all that can be asked. Our opinions might never coincide but that is exactly what opinions are... the person on the other end has to wade through the answers.
Just to be on record... my personal opinion of of early day CVA products is not very high. I had 3 different CVA's maybe 4 - I do not have any today. The old addage certainly applies - I often got what I paid for, plastic sights - uneven bore diameters - heavy duty shooting restrictions and others bothersome traits. But in defense of CVA - the barrel blowing up was never any greater concern that i have today with most any ML. And be sure that they did a fine job harvesting animals at the range I was shooting in those days.
And again on the record i really do not care what you are shooting if it works for you. My best friend and hunting partner shoots a CVA and PowerBelts - does that make him any less of a friend certainly not in my book. Would I reccommend a CVA friend, probably not, unless it would be one of the newer varieties that CVA is building today with the better barrel; and the only reason that I can/could do that is a member of this forum that i respect has told me they are so much better today. Even then i would still try to suggest other products - but it is still his/her choice.
Not to cause a problem just to explain how i personally feel. If this offends anyone please read over it and ignore it...
01-13-2010, 08:18 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,607
Personally, I learn a lot from debates. I learn nothing from arguments. If you keep your opinions respectful and keep an open mind, I think we all will learn.
Honestly, the only reason I come on here is to learn and to see harvests. I wouldn't have stuck around for 3-4 years if there wasn't any of that being put out here. The 'pot stirring' is only done by one, maybe two individuals so I mainly ignore their rants and move on.
Life is way too short to get all worked up over someone else's opinion.
Honestly, the only reason I come on here is to learn and to see harvests. I wouldn't have stuck around for 3-4 years if there wasn't any of that being put out here. The 'pot stirring' is only done by one, maybe two individuals so I mainly ignore their rants and move on.
Life is way too short to get all worked up over someone else's opinion.
01-13-2010, 08:25 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Moravia NY USA
Posts: 2,164
Sabotloader - great post!
The only thing I would add is that often times the problem come not from discussing/debating the merits of one product vs another - that is human nature and healthy. The problem I see most often, and react to more then I should, is the predictable constant pathological hijacking of any thread to inject info on brand A when the question and discussion was specifically on Brand B. It then escalates from a discussion to a mud bog. And it starts almost exclusively from one source - a person back from a banning seeking desperately to be veiwed as an authority.
The only thing I would add is that often times the problem come not from discussing/debating the merits of one product vs another - that is human nature and healthy. The problem I see most often, and react to more then I should, is the predictable constant pathological hijacking of any thread to inject info on brand A when the question and discussion was specifically on Brand B. It then escalates from a discussion to a mud bog. And it starts almost exclusively from one source - a person back from a banning seeking desperately to be veiwed as an authority.
01-13-2010, 08:33 AM
#20
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
SteveBNy
Agreement... but is there any chance that you, I or any of us are going to change that. it is what it is, it is what it does or substitute 'he'... Ignore him as i try desperately to do, and then try to answer the intended question.
The problem I see most often, and react to more then I should, is the predictable constant pathological hijacking of any thread to inject info on brand A when the question and discussion was specifically on Brand B. It then escalates from a discussion to a mud bog. And it starts almost exclusively from one source - a person back from a banning seeking desperately to be veiwed as an authority.
