target shooting muzzy
 

Ok I mentioned this in another post.
If you were to build a muzzy for LONG distance target only shooting what would it be. We have a club here in Southern Colorado that shoots out to 600 yards. They are a traditional club, you can only use primitive muzzys no inlines and no sabot.

I was thinking of using my T/C sidelock with a set of Creedmore's on it.

What do you think?

It might work. But in that kind of case I would look at a Gibbs or a Whitworth rifle.

If money was no object I would get a Gibbs.

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/?ite...Id=150&lang=en

Are they muzzle loaders?

The Gibbs and Whitworth rifle are muzzleloaders.

for me to shoot with these guys it would have to be percussion cap or flintlock

They are booth percussion.

I built a 35.5 inch long barrel in a Hawken on a set of plans from the museum in St Louis MO in 54 caliber that did well for me at Friendship but patch round ball is no much good over 200yds. I guess you would be looking for a paper patch slug gun to shoot up to 1000 meters.

A Gibbs would be pretty nice

Lee, that is what I will be doing. I was thinking of using some of the maxi style conicals I have made. So far I have had GOOD results with some 385g maxi's on top of a button patch over 80-90g of select. at 100 yards or less the gun will shot 1 inch groups.

I'm thinking a slightly lighter conical will improve my long range capability. It's not like I need the energy for penatration as long it will stay stable over a long distance. Hell I don't care if it will shoot 400 yards, I'd just like to shoot out there a little more.

So will a .45 or .50 shoot better at distance?

there was a show the other day, american shooter? and he was going for a record 15 shots in 45 minutes @ 500 yards with a muzzleloader. i think it was whitworth shooting a 500 grain conical with 80gr 2f blackpowder. The target was 18"x18" and he got 4 shots in the black 11 in the white. That kind of shooting is awesome and fun, but when it comes to hunting, its to far.

I watched that the other night also.Pretty cool.he was shooting in a high cross wind too.He missd the 2nd to last shot.was cool he' would shoot and like 2 sec later you would hear the bullet hit the plate.

I wish I had saw that. I'd bet he was shooting a 45 cal with 1:20 or 1:18 twist.

I would like to have seen it to. Lee

Paul the 45 has a bit of an edge in velocity, the 50 has a much wider range of choices in bullets and sabots. It really depends on what you have confidence in. Lee

I would go with a Pedersoli Gibbs .451. I bought one last year and Joe Hepsworth in Ohio makes match grade bullets for it in paper patch or grease groove. The gun is caple of 1000 yard shots , to bad I'm not. It would be the best LRM .

Paul
Lighter bullets slow down faster, a pointed shape to help keep the speed and a peep designed for the long distance target. A laser range finder if they are legal and the distance is unknown. Bullets with a ballistic shape and long for the caliber if you buy a rifle special for it find out the weight of bullet the guys that consistently score best are using, then be sure any rifle you buy has the right twist. If you have any problem figuring it get the bullet weight and caliber, and e-mail me I have some software for that. Lee

good advice. You need at least a 1:18 twist. I shoot a 540 gr bullet with 110 gr 777 in my Gibbs. It has a 1:18 twist. I thought the sharpshooter barrel for my T/C with the 1:24 twist would be good but it is still a little slow. It will handle a 460 gr conical real well but doesn't really shoot over 200 yards accurately.

Thanks guy's

This brings up the question in my mind "what about the transsonic region and it's effect on a muzzleloader bullet?" With high powered rifles, the maximum effective range of the rifle is the distance at which the bullet enters the transsonic region (about mach 1.2). As it gets close to the speed of sound in the air it's traveling through, the dynamic stability of the bullet goes wacky and the bullet usually starts to tumble by the time reaches mach 1, which completely wrecks the accuracy beyond that point. Because of the relatively high BC and high MV of rifle bullets, this range is usually well beyond 800 yards. But the much slower launch of the muzzleloader bullet, and the relatively poor BC, means that it'll enter the transsonic region within a few hundred yards.

I ran the numbers through JBM to see, and a 450 grain .458cal Barnes Banded solid, which is similar to the shape of a lead .45cal conical you'd be shooting from a ML, launched at a velocity of 1500 fps (which is pretty reasonable for BP velocity for such a heavy bullet), would cross the sound barrier at just 293 yards. It enters the transsonic region (mach 1.2) at just 100 yards. Now, I know full well that people shoot a lot farther than that, but I wonder if to do so they have to launch the bullet subsonic to avoid the transsonic stability issue.

Ponders...

Mike

Wow thats something I never considered. I guess a person always thinks of a muzzy as a slow shooter.

driftrider
If you have the software for that would you figure a .269 BC at 2350 FPS?
That is my 50/40 200gr SW load with Blackhorn. Lee

Lee, here's one chart with a zero at 500 yards (+42 inches at 300 yards). It looks like the bullet enters the transsonic zone of 1230/1340 fps at around the 400 yard mark. Notice the 2+ feet of wind drift with a 5 mph crosswind.

I'll do you one better and give you the link to the website where you can access all the JBM calculators yourself. They are free, and the JBM program is about the best around for accurately predicting trajectory.

JBM Ballistics Calculators

Mike

Here's the chart I generated for your load:



To keep the chart a reasonable size I cut it off at 500 yards, but as you can see, mach 1.2 is reached between 375 and 400 yards, and the bullet drops subsonic just slightly past 500 (at 500 it's at mach 1.034). This chart corresponds closely to the one posted by semisane. I know the site he's using and it's pretty good, but the calculator doesn't have the functionality of the JBM calculator. Go to the link in my post above and click on calculators to see what I mean.

Mike

Wow where did you find those programs at guys? I'm not sure it will ever do me any good....but it is fun stuff to know.

Wouldn't ti be nice to calc it out, then go out and shoot just like the chart says?