fireing problems
12-06-2009, 06:43 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Platteville, Wisconsin
Posts: 3,203
fireing problems
my grandpa has a 20 year old thompson/center cap-lock muzzleloader. and i took it out this weekend for the wisconsin muzzleloader season. i was going to unload the gun by firing it but when i pulled the trigger the cap just snapped, it didn't go off. i kept putting new caps on and firing it but it did the same thing. i was just wondering if anyone could help me and tell what i need to do to fix it. any help would be much appricated
12-06-2009, 07:08 PM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
wis_rifle_hunter
As I understand it your caps did go off but the gun didn't. If that is the case has nothing to with the nipple - unless it is plugged... or you did not put any powder in the bore - and you would not be the first that has missed that step - "I know - that for a fact"
Question, did you pop a couple of caps before loading the gun? If you didn't the fire channel is/was probably plugged with oil or debris...
If you can and you fell comfortable with it remove the nipple, and pour/tap some powder down into the breech plug. Put the nipple back in as normal. Cap the gun and shoot it. The gun may/could go boom for you this way.
Another alternative is to pull the load with a bullet/ball puller then flush out the previous load. Clean the gun and go again. Make sure to pop a couple of caps prior to loading. Place a cap on the nipple and point the muzzle to ground - fire a cap and see that you are getting pressure/air out the bore.
If you try to load the BP and fire the gun and it still does not go off do not attempt to pull the load for several minutes.
A good safety measure that you might consider if you choose to pull the load, pull the nipple and place the breech in a bucket of water to saturate the powder.
i pulled the trigger the cap just snapped, it didn't go off.
Question, did you pop a couple of caps before loading the gun? If you didn't the fire channel is/was probably plugged with oil or debris...
If you can and you fell comfortable with it remove the nipple, and pour/tap some powder down into the breech plug. Put the nipple back in as normal. Cap the gun and shoot it. The gun may/could go boom for you this way.
Another alternative is to pull the load with a bullet/ball puller then flush out the previous load. Clean the gun and go again. Make sure to pop a couple of caps prior to loading. Place a cap on the nipple and point the muzzle to ground - fire a cap and see that you are getting pressure/air out the bore.
If you try to load the BP and fire the gun and it still does not go off do not attempt to pull the load for several minutes.
A good safety measure that you might consider if you choose to pull the load, pull the nipple and place the breech in a bucket of water to saturate the powder.
12-06-2009, 07:47 PM
#4
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
First off to unload the rifle, take the nipple out of the bolster. Then with your nipple pick push some powder into the bolster. Replace the nipple.
Second... take your ramrod and check the load. Be sure it is pushed all the way down to the breech of the rifle.
Third .... somewhere safe, cap the nipple and shoot the charge out of your rifle. If it only fires the cap again, repeat step #1 & #2
Lets say your rifle is now empty. After sitting 20 years, Grandpa's rifle is probably dusty in the bore. I am guessing the bolster is filled with oil and crud. So you have to clean the devil out of the rifle. Gets some leather gloves, a coffee can, some dish soap, and boil some water.
Squirt some dishsoap in the coffee can. Now add boiling water to the coffee can. Take the nipple out of the bolster. Dip a patch in that boiling water. Make sure the bolster is under the water level.
With a cleaning jag on your ramrod, lay that wet patch over the muzzle. Now start working that patch down the bore of the rifle. Watch your water. You should see air bubbles and feel the suction of the water to the patch.
Work all the way down the bore. Then as you pump water through the bolster, be careful of boiling water squirting up out of the barrel. Do about three patches this way. Check the patches to make sure the bore is clean.
When the patches come out clean, take the barrel out of the bath. Take the barrel outside and pour more boiling water down the barrel. Can you see water coming out of the bolster/nipple port? If you do, fill the barrel about two times. Let the water drain out.
Now with your gloves on still take the barrel inside. Apply some rubbing alcohol to a patch. Work that patch down the bore of the hot barrel. Check the patch and make sure it is coming up clean.
Now run some dry patches down the bore of the barrel. Keep doing this until the bore is dry. Now you have a clean, dry bore. Put some gun oil on a patch and swab the bore of the barrel with that gun oil patch.
Set the barrel off to the side to cool. Also check and make sure the nipple is clear. Blow through it. Can you feel your breath through it? Hold it up to the light and look through it. Can you see light? Put the nipple back in your rifle. Your rifle is now protected
Before you shoot next time, take a patch. Apply some rubbing alcohol to the patch. Swab the gun oil out of the bore. Now run some dry patches down the bore. When they come out dry, push a dry one to the bottom of the breech. Now pop a cap and pull the patch. Can you see a burn mark on it? If not push that back in and pop another cap. Keep doing this until you see a burn mark on that patch. When you do you are ready to load and shoot. Your rifle will go off then.
Second... take your ramrod and check the load. Be sure it is pushed all the way down to the breech of the rifle.
Third .... somewhere safe, cap the nipple and shoot the charge out of your rifle. If it only fires the cap again, repeat step #1 & #2
Lets say your rifle is now empty. After sitting 20 years, Grandpa's rifle is probably dusty in the bore. I am guessing the bolster is filled with oil and crud. So you have to clean the devil out of the rifle. Gets some leather gloves, a coffee can, some dish soap, and boil some water.
Squirt some dishsoap in the coffee can. Now add boiling water to the coffee can. Take the nipple out of the bolster. Dip a patch in that boiling water. Make sure the bolster is under the water level.
With a cleaning jag on your ramrod, lay that wet patch over the muzzle. Now start working that patch down the bore of the rifle. Watch your water. You should see air bubbles and feel the suction of the water to the patch.
Work all the way down the bore. Then as you pump water through the bolster, be careful of boiling water squirting up out of the barrel. Do about three patches this way. Check the patches to make sure the bore is clean.
When the patches come out clean, take the barrel out of the bath. Take the barrel outside and pour more boiling water down the barrel. Can you see water coming out of the bolster/nipple port? If you do, fill the barrel about two times. Let the water drain out.
Now with your gloves on still take the barrel inside. Apply some rubbing alcohol to a patch. Work that patch down the bore of the hot barrel. Check the patch and make sure it is coming up clean.
Now run some dry patches down the bore of the barrel. Keep doing this until the bore is dry. Now you have a clean, dry bore. Put some gun oil on a patch and swab the bore of the barrel with that gun oil patch.
Set the barrel off to the side to cool. Also check and make sure the nipple is clear. Blow through it. Can you feel your breath through it? Hold it up to the light and look through it. Can you see light? Put the nipple back in your rifle. Your rifle is now protected
Before you shoot next time, take a patch. Apply some rubbing alcohol to the patch. Swab the gun oil out of the bore. Now run some dry patches down the bore. When they come out dry, push a dry one to the bottom of the breech. Now pop a cap and pull the patch. Can you see a burn mark on it? If not push that back in and pop another cap. Keep doing this until you see a burn mark on that patch. When you do you are ready to load and shoot. Your rifle will go off then.
12-06-2009, 07:52 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
I had a fellow bring me one a few years back that was doing the same thing...He had put it up the year before and cleaned it and then swabbed the bore real well with a coating of Bore Butter...
The Bore Butter plugged the hole between the drum and barrel...
I removed the nipple, cleaned it and removed the drum clean out screw and cleaned with a pipe cleaner, dropped a few grains of powder in the drum, put her back together and she went off first shot...
Did you try the gun before the season??? When you put it up how did you clean it??? It's also possible you used too much oil and this has soaked into the powder...
If none of this works, you need to pull the ball with a ball puller...Before you do that, make sure the powder is wet so there is no danger of the gun going off...
The Bore Butter plugged the hole between the drum and barrel...
I removed the nipple, cleaned it and removed the drum clean out screw and cleaned with a pipe cleaner, dropped a few grains of powder in the drum, put her back together and she went off first shot...
Did you try the gun before the season??? When you put it up how did you clean it??? It's also possible you used too much oil and this has soaked into the powder...
If none of this works, you need to pull the ball with a ball puller...Before you do that, make sure the powder is wet so there is no danger of the gun going off...
12-07-2009, 08:08 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,445
Many years ago, I missed a chance at a 6 point buck with a 50 cal. T/C Renegade. I cleaned the gun thoroughly the night before, and ran an oiled patch down the bore for good measure. Next morning I did run a dry patch down the bore, but apparently oil accumulated in the bolster area. Anyway the deer came down the hill and I snapped a few caps at him before he was out of sight.
Since then I've been meticulous about making sure the bore is clean and bone dry of any oils before loading. Never had a problem since.
Since then I've been meticulous about making sure the bore is clean and bone dry of any oils before loading. Never had a problem since.
12-07-2009, 08:57 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Coralville, IA. USA
Posts: 3,802
As said above, the first place I'd start is to remove the nipple and pack as much powder into the bolster as you can, stuff it full. Carefully screw the nipple back in, cap, point in a safe direction, and fire. Even if you have crud and/or oil/moisture in there, the new powder will should light off. This will either create enough heat/flame to light the main charge, or enough pressure to blow the bullet and contaminated charge out of the barrel. After the bore is clear, do a thorough cleaning and make sure the bore is as dry as possible before reloading. It's also an excellent idea to snap a few caps before loading the rifle (safety first, though, always in a safe direction). This blows any debris and burns/dries any moisture out of the elbow and chamber.
Lastly, one trick I ALWAYS did when hunting with a sidelock is to put a little powder in the elbow when loading the rifle for the hunt, same as you're going to do to clear the charge. The 2-3 grains of powder that will fit in the elbow won't change the POI, but it'll guarantee fast ignition. I'd also, after loading the powder but before the bullet, I'd tip the rifle to the right (bolster) side and give it a few sharp slaps with my hand to work as much powder down into the bolster from the chamber side as possible. Lastly, if you can still find it in your area, try using real black powder (like GOEX) instead of the other substitutes. BP is super easy to ignite. If you can't get GOEX, then I like Pyrodex P for sidelocks. Avoid T7, and don't even bother trying BH 209.
If all else fails, you might need to go get a bullet puller (screw jag) and yank the bullet manually with your ramrod (a t-handled "range rod" will work better), or you can buy one of the CO2 powered charge removers that blows pressurized CO2 into the nipple.
Good Luck,
Mike
Lastly, one trick I ALWAYS did when hunting with a sidelock is to put a little powder in the elbow when loading the rifle for the hunt, same as you're going to do to clear the charge. The 2-3 grains of powder that will fit in the elbow won't change the POI, but it'll guarantee fast ignition. I'd also, after loading the powder but before the bullet, I'd tip the rifle to the right (bolster) side and give it a few sharp slaps with my hand to work as much powder down into the bolster from the chamber side as possible. Lastly, if you can still find it in your area, try using real black powder (like GOEX) instead of the other substitutes. BP is super easy to ignite. If you can't get GOEX, then I like Pyrodex P for sidelocks. Avoid T7, and don't even bother trying BH 209.
If all else fails, you might need to go get a bullet puller (screw jag) and yank the bullet manually with your ramrod (a t-handled "range rod" will work better), or you can buy one of the CO2 powered charge removers that blows pressurized CO2 into the nipple.
Good Luck,
Mike
