T/C Omega won't group.
 

I've been trying to get my Omega to group.
I've floated the barrel by sanding down the synthetic stock pressure point. It didn't seem to have any effect. The groups were the same before floating the barrel.
I've tried 120gr. and 110gr. Triple 7

When I bought the bullets, Ray of http://muzzleloadingbullets.com said, 120gr. of Triple 7 was the load producing the best groups. Not for me. I reload and shoot bench rest. This is frustrating. Any ideas?

SEE ATTACHED TARGET IMAGE
Bullet
.40 Dead Center - 240 grain -120 gr. Triple Seven FFG

Check the sights, then it's time for load variation. Change up your powder charge from 80-140gr in 10gr increments and then fine tune. Bullets and sabots. Too many combinations to list. Pick and try.
My T/C Omega shoots 250gr Hdy SSTs, 240gr Hdy XTPs, and 240gr T/C Cheap shots well with 130gr RS.

Open sights? What distance?

When all else fails in a INLINE rifle I start at 80 grains of Pyrodex RS and a 250 grain Shockwave. I can normally get that to start grouping. Start at 25 yards and shoot a three shot group. It should be VERY TIGHT in the group. Then kick it up to 90, 100, and so on until the group starts to open up. Move the sights to be dead center bull.

Then move back to 50 yards and try the load that did the best for you. What kind of group did you shoot here? If it was good, then move back to 100 yards and do it all over again. Be sure to swab between shots.

Now I do not own an Omega, but have handled them. They feel like a real nice rifle.

Muzzleloaders are NOT centerfire rifles. What shoots great in one rifle may not shoot worth crap in another. You will have to try different bullet/powder combinations to find the sweet spot on your rifle.

And you don't have to start with magnum loads (and 120 gr of 777 is a magnum load). Try starting at 90 gr and shoot three times, then 95 gr, shoot three times, 100 gr.........up to about 110 gr. And you will have to try some different bullets.

You don't need over 100 gr of any powder to kill anything walking in America. My elk load is 90 gr or 777 or BH 209.

It may take a lot of work, but will be sweet when you find your rifles sweet spot! If not, you can send it back to T/C and see if they can get it to shoot. If they can't, they will give you a different barrel.

100 grains (normally 2 pellets) and 250 SW, with wet and dry patch between each shot works well for my TC Omega.

The Plastic stocks on the Omega are very sensitive to how the barrel and action are tightened up. Try setting the torque on the rear mount screw first and then tighten the front. Use the same torque each time. If it still has problems you may have to bed the action. My Omega shot great for a while then all of a sudden it started grouping all over the place. Action bedding was the problem.

In my Omega, two pyro pellets (100grains) and a 260gr Precision Elite.

You're too Hot
 

Had the same problem with my Omega. I was shooting 250 Shockwaves with 110 of T7 with no consistency.

I went to a 300 gn. bullet. and down to 100gns of T7. and started to group very well. ( 1725 FPS by the way )

If you're using a 240 grn bullet, try about 85 grns of T7. It's still plenty of power and will be on target.

I use to shoot the dead centers from precision in my t/c thunderhawk using 85 grains of 777 gun will groupe outstanding.
I think the over the 100 grains may be your problem.

+1.

I have a lot of experience with Dead Centers. While they are accurate and perform well on game, their soft lead construction will not handle velocities over about 1800-2000 fps well. Precision Rifle will not tell you that but I have shot them in enough guns and have enough shooting buddies who have done the same to see that we have NEVER found an accurate load over 2000 fps and 1800 fps is a more realistic limit in most guns; the bullets apparently start to deform over that.

You're just pushing them too hard. Back off on the powder to 85gr and work your way up in 5gr increments.

The other possibility is your gun just doesn't like them. The reason I stopped using Dead Center bullets was that I switched to my Omega and it would not shoot any weight of them accurately at any reasonable (85gr+) charge.

+2 spaniel. my omega shoots very well with Nosler,SST,XTP and Gold dots,I have never found a lead bullet it likes. I tried both QT 40 and Dead centers with poor results. I do not even want to talk about how it shoots conicals

Charlie

Check and make sure you don't have to long of screws holding your scope mounts on if you do you will have to get different screws or shorten them. A very tiny amount of play there will make any gun shoot all over. Check all mounting points including the action attaching. If you bought it used check the size of the touch hole it must be less than 40 thousands in size and round if it is flame cut to one side that also can cause your problem. Use a torque wrench and set the stock to action screws to 28 inch pounds uneven or to much or to little pressure affects accuracy. And last but not least try a different powder, I have come across several guns that just won't shoot old crudring 777 accurate.

I've ordered some Hornady SST 250gr. to test. I have on hand some Knight Jacketed Bullets 240 gr, .40-240 Dead Center and some T/C XTP 240 gr.

I'll start as suggested with 85 grains of T7 and work upward. Any suggestions on with bullet to start with.

Also I heard tighten the rear recoil lug before the front recoil lug. then tighten them both the same. I have a torx driver and I have them both tightened to 50 in. lbs.

I've installed a rubber cushion at the front pressure point where that I have sanded down to float the barrel. This has worked on some of my centerfire rifles that wouldn't group. SEE ATTACHED.

I yet to too see a inline not handle the hornady xtp 240 or 300 grainers.I shoot the 300 xtp and 85 grains of T777 in my inline but I change the factory black sabot that comes in the box.I like the harvester crush rib sabot : I think they mike to .500 and my t/c barrel is tight the factory set -up sabot are a o.k. only if I clean the barrel before loading otherwise they can be hard getting down the bore.I never did ask I hope you don't lube the sabot some guy also swap with t/c bore buttter??????
I would recommend plain spit if the sabot are tight going down the bore.
I would also say to mark your ramrod or make sure you are not seating the bullet too much,I know my setup i only sit the bullet/sabot over the powder never crush it.
I would say some guns shoot better with dirty bores so it something you have to play with my bores like them clean so I swap after each shot nothing more then window cleaner on a cloth jag followed by a clean jag
I hope it helps
The funny part I can load up to 115 grains of real BP in my inlines and handle the recoil with no problem but with T7 my max is 85 grains.
I shot the Qt's before still have a few in the bag,I am not a big fan on them only because they will (most of the time) only have one entrance hole and blood trils can be hard to follow;I shot a huge 8 pointers in Pa. a few years back ran 140 class almost lost him to a poor blood trail.I can say the silver lighting in 300 grain will put deer down were they stand I shot a few large does that never took a step and the holes are large enough to leave blood all over the place.
I also shoot the bufffalo Sb 375 grain HPBT another outstanding bullet and again 80 to 85 grains with T7 in my max:
hope all helps:kt:

Thom2
There are many things that can be over done I think 50 inch pounds is enough to distort the stock. If it has and won't relax back to its proper shape you may have to bed it and put pillars in. Lee

call TC find out what they say to shoot ,if that does not work send it to them with a note explaining what you have done and what you think of the POS and to please send a proven barrel to you , been there done that.

I don't think I would go over 25 to 30. 50 seems a little much , then again I ain't no gunsmith.

Just sighted in my friends Omega this weekend. Use 90 grains of T7 and a 240 rain xtp in the supplied sabot. I mounted the QR leo[olds for him , bore sighted and be bullseyed first shot a 50 yeards. We will work this weekend on 100 and beyond. I would look at the sights forst male sure they are tight, look at the stock screwssecond. It just sounds as though something is moving around. When you set yuor stock screws next time, mark wear they set. You have a tight point everytime, not guessing what is and isn't tight.

I have a TC Omega and I was wondering the same thing this morning. So I just called TC and asked the customer service girl how many pounds per inch the action screws should be set at and she replied, "There is no exact poundage. We hand-tighten the screws until snug, then go another 1/8 turn."

Sounds easy enough, but that kind of inexact answer is the kind of thing that makes my OCD flare up :s9:. So I guess I'm gonna be setting mine to about 25 pounds with a Fat Wrench so that I can have some known, definite basis if I need to take it apart again in the future.

Anyway, just wanted to share that.

Omega shooting better
 

Here's the latest on getting my Omega to group. Went to 85 grains of T7 with the T/C 240 XTP. ( SEE TARGET) two in the same hole - one 2" high. I'll keep testing tomorrow when I receive the Hornady 250 SST.

Thats a little more like it. Don't know what happened on #2.

My Omega shoots the 240 XTP/Mags better than any other bullet I've tried thus far (granted... thats only been five). I shoot 80gr of Blackhorn 209 powder... its a nailer. Haven't had the thing much more than a full week and have already whacked a pair of deer with it.

thom2's Omega Group getting closer
 

Attached is a target I shot this afternoon using the Hornady 250 gr SST and 100gr of T7. 110 gr of T7 wouldn't group at all.

I can't understand why two shots are high and two are low.
I swabbed the barrel the same way after each shot.

2-split patch (H2O)
1-dry patch

I think I'll weigh the powder for the next round. I believe the volume 100 gr of T7 weighs about 70 grains.

Possibility: #1 was a clean barrel. #2 and #3 look good.
#4 the barrel was warming up and changing poi
just a thought

I have one last idea
remove the scope and shoot it with iron sights.
I had a centerfire rifle that I know groups 3 shots inside a dime at the 100 yd target.
well all I started with 2 shot the same place next shot 6" high
next low
the scope was on it way out :bash:

I think the grouping problem maybe relative to the cheap Simmons Whitetail scope I put on the Omega. Tomorrow I'm replacing it with one of my high end Leupold's off of a .270 rifle I seldom use . ——— Stay tuned.

Bet you find it wasn't the scope. :biggrin: I've helped a lot of guys in my club figure out grouping problems. It's seldom a scope problem - loose mounts sometimes - but almost never the scope.

Semisane— I put the base on with the recommended torque and used blue lock tight on all the screws including the caps. The first thing I did was check the mount. It seems tight

That's always the first thing I usually check too Thom.

But I screwed up big time last Saturday helping a buddy figure out grouping problems with his Knight MK-85 using T7 and Powerbelts. We put about twenty bullets down range with various loads before we realized that the front scope base was loose. :bash: After fixing that we were still having problems, though to a lesser extent. He was sure the scope was faulty. But after convincing him to try dropping the powder charge (he didn't want to go below 90 grains) we hit the magic load with 70 grains.

I don't fault you for trying the Leupold "just in case" - that's what I'd do too. I hope the scope is the source of the problem, but still bet it's not.

Since I'm pulling the Simmons off anyway. I'll double check the base screws. The rings are Leupold Dual Dovetail DD Rings which are pretty stable. I'll post my finding late tomorrow.

thom2:
Keep me posted on the scope change
I like to add to center the scope take it at low power and like the in the bathroom vanity glass place it up to the glass (front part) and look into the scope then turn the adjustment screws until you see the cross hair in the middle ;now the scope in dead center in the tube:violin:

Omega shooting now.
 

Finally got my Omega to group. Changed from the Simmons Whitetail scope to a Leupold 3x9.

Load now Hornady SST 250 Low Drag – 90 grains of Triple Se7en.
.25 cal breech plug conversion.

See Attached Target.

thom2-how fast are you shooting? My omega will open up about 2" on a warm barrel.Usually the 3rd shot. just shoot one time from a clean cold barrel-that is all you will ever need for hunting

Charlie

Hey Charlie,
There's probably 2 to 3minutes between shots. Just time enough to check the target, swab the barrel, reload and position myself for the next shot. The barrel is warm, but not hot.

I'm doing a little more shot test today. I'll let you know the results.

Just warm is enough to put a shot out of the group for mine. I do not really mind because my 1st shot is always dead on.

Charlie

Shot again this afternoon.
The first shot (clean cold barrel) was 1" to the left. Next 4 shots 1/2" group. 5 shot group 1 1/4 inch.

Nothing wrong with that group size.Looks like heat was not the problem. If it were my rifle I would zero to the clean cold barrel. I think you will have no problems. Good Hunting

Charlie