Breech Plug locked up (Technique to free?)
 

Today I had my first experience with breech plug lockup. I must have spent about 45 minutes trying to get my breech plug out. Are there any tricks I should know about???

I ended up placing my LRH straight on it's barrel and dripping Kroil oil down on the breech plug. After letting it sit for about 5 min, I was finally able to break it free with a lot of encouragement. Let's just say.....I came very close to reaching for my 4' long cheater bar. kl

Let me guess, shooting Triple 7?

The penetrating oil technique works pretty good, especially if part of the reason the plug is stuck is because you forgot to grease it (you do grease it when you install it, right?). If the dreaded T7 crud is the culprit, try plugging the primer hole and putting a good amount of BP solvent or plain hot water down the bore. Both will dissolve the T7 filth that will cement a breech plug in place.

One last trick is one you do at the range. After you fire 2-3 shots, stop and loosen the plug, then retighten. This breaks the as yet newly formed but weak fouling seal, and when you retighten there is basically a fault line in the crusty ring that would otherwise seize the plug, allowing it to break free much easier later when it's time for cleaning.

Mike

Sound like you might be using 777 it does that. There have been cases where it was a real problem. There are several ways of helping the situation one is to use Blackhorn 209 powder, some that use 777 move there breach plug every few shots. You do need to put a good anti-seize or teflon tape on the plug after cleaning and do NOT crank it down tight finger tight is the rule. If you are using 777 then do try the Teflon tape it is the best answer for 777. You might also us the search engine and look up the thread on applying it by Sabot loader. Lee

klundin2000

If you are going to use T7 then you need to seal the breech from the blowback. The easiets way is with teflon tape and the more common way is with BP grease. I choose to use Teflon.

If the plug siezes it normally is not a big thing... Plug the primer hoe and just drop boiling water into the bore and let it set. After a few minutes the water will dissolve the fouling and the heat will expand and crack the fouling alowing water to drop in...

Here is how I wrap my BP's...



And here is my theory... for the life of me I have not figured out why people would only run the plug up 'finger tight' when you are trying to seal the blowback in the bore. It should not be 'TIGHT' but I believe it should be snug, just enought to squash the tflon but not enoug to tear it...




It seems that all is not equal in the world of shooting a ML - this works for me but you will need to try what works best for you...

Sabotloader

Good stuff. I learned a lot today. Thank you. kl

Tapes the only way to go !!!!!

BH209 doesnt need tape or grease.:party0005:

And some guys don't need BH209. :) :s2:

And some people just don't catch on quite as quick.

I've been using up the TC Bore Butter on the threads.It does get a little tight but so far hasn't gotten stuck.After the BB's gone I plan to use Teflon tape.

Semi

I have shot a fair share of BH for testing purposes and i like you so no need of it for myself. It is 'the real deal' as advertised but it certainly is not night day difference between itself and T7. The use of high intesity primers is also very tough on your breechplugs, both in their fouling properties and the intense they create, gas cutting the flash hole. Although, I think we might have that problem somewhat solved.

Here I can still go to the local store and buy T7 for $18.99, but after talking to Tom maybe you guys can not get it for that price. In the local stores here in the northwest you can not even find BH, probably because you can not shoot it during ML season in the northwest.

Yeah, I'm a little slow Doug. But Blackhorn doesn't "catch on" at all in my sidelocks and doesn't shoot any better than T7 or Pyrodex in my in-lines. Swabbing??? Sure, but it's no big deal for me.

I'm afraid I must be a little on the slow side too. For some reason, swabbing between shots doesn't bother me so much. I have to wait for the rifle to cool down anyway so I might as well be doing something.
Clean up afterwards takes a little time but I put some music on and think about my shooting. It's actually kind of an enjoyable routine for us slow people.
Art

flounder33

Amen!

im actually using teflon tape on my Accuras plug. I dont see any difference between it and the grease. Neither allow any blowby. Both come out easy. The grease i use washes off with water. Im also using pyrodex RS.

BH209 is to hard to find around here. Goex is a hell of a lot easier to find LOL. but still a 2 hour drive, so i stick with pyrodex.

You all left out one difference, I know that the swabbing and the crud ring don't bother some people [the crud ring was a problem to me] and I know it will shoot reasonably accurate I used it for two years, and Sabot loader is right about the price it does change according to where you are around here they carry both in the local sporting good stores the 777 is around 27 and the BH is around 37 but I buy through a different system and get the BH cheaper than I can the 777 so circumstances change and vary for each of us but there is one point that a lot of people are missing.
With 777 yo can only burn about 120 gr effectively a bit of testing will show that with the same 120 grains that the pressure is around 15% lower and because it is progressive burning you can burn more and that after 110gr the difference in velocity will change as the BH keeps right on gaining. Just what I think from my own experience and testing. Lee

lemoyne

You are absolutely correct with the heavier bullets but even then you get a max of 200 fps of greater velocity within the given recommended loading rates.

With the lighter bullets the difference goes south in hurry.

It is good but it not that good -

Correct again for you, but how many normal folks can afford to buy a case and then store it. And how many normal ML shooters shoot as much as you and I. The majority of shooters might not even shoot their 10 ounces or lb in my case in a year.

I am sure you are right Lee and for long-range shooting I think the BH 209 has some definite advantages. My shots are mostly going to be 100 yards or less, mostly much less.
I am not getting down on those who shoot BH 209 at all. I just don't think I should be made to feel stupid if I choose another powder.
That's what I like about muzzleloading, we can all find a way to shoot that suits us. Like my best pal tells me "Do it your own damn wrong way then".
Art
.

Well for one thing I don't believe in putting anything that works down, and that an honest comparison does not do that. I still use Pyrodex in half my guns and black in a couple some times the type of gun and the circumstances influences the situation.
I just like to see all the +'s and -'s shown when something is talked about.
Mike you may be right when you say we shoot more than most, I doubt if there is more than 10% that burn a case and a half a year like I do but I bet there are more than you think, although I suspect that you and Dave and maybe Tom would be in that category with me.
Also there is the velocity thing, I really like having the capability of pushing a 200gr over 2400 and a 250 gr over 2300 a lot of the error in distance shooting comes from Trajectory so the flatter you can shoot the less error and it also reduces wind drift. Its not for everybody or every gun but I am glad it has worked for me.

Lee

All your information is correct anyway from my point of view it is.

But you also have to remember not all will see what you see. I have shot 130 grains of BH (actually 140 grains in a Knight with a 200 grain Lehigh to which velocity was less than 130) and at my elevation - I do not reach the velocity that you and Tom do.

Toby Bridges has conducted many such shooting experiments at his elevation and Montana and does not see what you and Tom see.

BH is a great powder!!! but you might as well buy a Savage and reap the full benefits of shooting smokeless at a far less cost. The additional expense of burning out a breech plug because of the primer necessary (gas cutting) and the greater heat created by BH in the bore (as with any smokeless) should also be computed into the formula. Although we may have found an answer for the breech plug issue. But even then not everyone is going to trust a couple of back yard mechanics... might even present some implications to warranties.

You and a lot of other folks see a lot of benefits, as I do but i do not see the night and day difference that might justify the cost of the powder versus others and i really think that there are draw backs also as there are with any other powders, and for me the draw backs do not weigh out.


I think Flounder may have touched it best - to those that choose to shoot BH - GREAT! and to us that shoot something else we should not be considered in the dark ages

I think that's right. Even us dumb old Southern boys that still shoot real black powder deserve respect. RESPECT I say!!!! :patriot:

Im pretty happy with 75.8 grains (Weight) Pyrodex RS and the 250gr Ballistic Tip Thor! I found the sweet spot this evening and have 3 Thors cuddling with eachother @ 100 yards. Tomorrow i get to test them in water/sand to see how the Ballistic Tip Thor will expand.

All good advice but I use both teflon tape and anti seize grease. I didn't see anyone suggest this but I just scanned the responses. After every 5-7 shots I back my plug out a little and screw it back in. I also do not wait until I get home and the barrel has a chance to cool down. I take it out before I leave the range while it's still warm. Hope this helps.

Now thats a winner right there! Nice shooting......:deer:

This elk season in CO will be my first using a ML, a .50 cal T/C Omega. I encountered the locked breech plug during my initial session with the rifle in May. Talk about being locked!
It took two guys holding the rifle while I got up on the bench at the range and put some serious torque on the tool that came with the gun!
I was using 777 FFG... This thread has been very educational.
Thanks.

Why wait? You can use the bore butter for other things. I used never-seize for years,now i use Teflon The mess is gone. BTW I never stuck a breech plug,so many ways to prevent it and none are wrong. just up to you.

Charlie

I have used 3 tubs of BH209 and have just gone to 777 . BH 209 is tooo $$$ , hard to find , hard and breech plug because of the primers needed , so i guess i Like the dark ages better . I convinced a local gun shop to get BH209 in , he got two tubs and i bought one and the other has sat there for over 6 months . They are not getting anymore in , its just too $$$ and nobody is buying it . I can get 777 at all the shop here in town and Wal mart will be dropping the prices ( close out) in a few months . Its great not having to swab beteen shots , but what i gained at the range i lost cleaning the replacing breech plugs . Plus it take only a few secounds swabbing one wet and one dry . Like spomeone esle said its good to cool your gun down too . after shooting 777 and my .25acp last time out , i just don't see that big ( if any) of a advantage of using BH209 . IMO . And me not buying any , leaves more for the rest of ya and thats a good thing !!

YEP VERY NICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool2:

I been lucky so far with CVA grease I find even with triple 777 powder in my thunderhawk the plug will remove with out any problems(JUST DON'T SEND IT HOME) I ONLY SNUG THE PLUG:wave: