spaniel

Agree 100%. I've been eyeing some of your velocity numbers. I check the shelves in every shooting/sporting store I enter. Maybe I'll get lucky eventually.

sabotloader

Grouse45

I disagree somewhat.... I have to go back to my centerfire reloading days to reach what i am proposing... but, anyway very often the maximum load in a 300 Win Mag or even the 270 with a particular bullet is not the most accurate... it may be going a bit faster and it will have a bit more energy, but more often than not the most accurate loads are not the max loads available for each powder type.

falcon

Works for me.

lemoyne

Well I posted this for two reasons. #1 was to try to get SW to understand why I don't agree with the MSDS, I am inclined to believe the other 17 parts are a standard retardant. #2 I though all the guys no matter what they shoot would find it interesting.
But after reading the posts I think that there is on point some of you are missing. I disregard the price I got a chance to pick some up cheaper than 777 I think [not sure what 777 costs any more but I bought 2 cases of BH for 16 dollars a case.
When I judge a powder I look at two things first, how much work and time it costs me to use it, my time is often limited and its valuable to me.
The second thing is where I differ from a lot of people. Pressure is what pushes a bullet but it can be applied in different ways a powder that goes quickly to peak pressure [ which black and most of the subs do not ] you have to worry about what peak pressure is more but you won't find unburned powder going out the barrel, this is what limits what you can get out of a powder.
Now when we talk about progressive burning powder, the more the pressure the faster it burns, and when you can find a progressive burning powder with an elongated peak and you do enough pressure testing to know what your limit is so you can take best advantage of it then you compare that velocity to the velocity you can get with other powders, and remember the longer lower pressure peak when pushed up to the same point as the other powders is still safe but more stable so long range accuracy should be better. Several people have mentioned the velocity obtainable so I won't repeat there work. Lee

spaniel

All is out the window if you can't get the accuracy, I don't think anyone is discounting accuracy but rather assuming you can get it at the increased velocity or it doesn't matter that you have the incremental velocity.

Case in point, 200gr SMK in my 300WM I can load 74.0gr Re22 and get max accuracy. This is already above max load by the book (but I seat my bullets out long as I have a long throat so it's ok). However, with the 200gr Accubond I only load 73.2gr Re22. While my goal was to have loads of identical velocity with the 2 bullets, I can't because I lose accuracy with the Accubond over 73.2gr.

Same goes for what I said in another thread about why I jump straight from 200 to 300+ grain bullets -- I can't drive 250s with full charges in my gun but I can do it with 300-325gr bullets so I don't get a velocity advantage with 250s, I can drive the 300s just as fast (with accuracy) giving me identical/better trajectory to the 250s but more energy delivered.

Grouse45

Sabotloader, spaniel answered correctly. I would never sacrifice accuracy for speed. Of course we all have are own way's of considering what's accurate enough for us.

sabotloader

Lee

I can only speak for myself and my thoughts, but:

As you can see I have not finished building this spread sheet still have some shooting to do. But, based on what I have collected so far I really do not see that huge of a difference. When I shoot the T7-3f loads the value difference will even be less. So for myself the cost of BH does not outweigh the advantages.


For my part on this I am grateful for the the additional time, albeit minimal, that T7 costs me to shoot. It does slow me down, one of the reasons I turned to shooting ML's - shooting a CF rifle was just to quick and to easy. Clean-up I really see very little difference between the two - they both must (should) be cleaned and they both clean up a lot easier - but I think I do save a couple of bucks with T7 because it cleans with water and Windex.

But I really gotta admit if you got two case of BH for $16 bucks each - Outstanding - for that I could do the switch...

I really want to finish this table just not sure where the time will come from - and it is really hot here...

spaniel

Just have to add on the whole time thing -- it amused me at the public range when people gave me a hard time about how long it took to reload the ML between shots, claiming it took to long to shoot them. #1, if you wanted to shoot accurately in the summer you needed 3-5min between shots with any gun (though many of them thought any 100yd group minute-of-pieplate was GREAT), and once I started reloading I learned that it took more time to reload a quality rifle cartridge than to reload a quality ML shot.

The only difference was I had to reload the ML at the range, and I could reload the rifle shell at home during the winter when I had nothing better to do...

spaniel

I guess it depends what your threshhold for significant improvement is. 100fps gain would mean 5 inches less drop and 1.5 inches less wind drift with the 325gr FTX load I have been developing, at 300 yards. If you never shoot over 200 yards, it means squat. If you are about 300 and certainly longer ranges, it starts to be pretty meaningful. I'd pay the premium if it was easy to find and I got 100+fps advantage.
Of course, over 2-3 years I could probably justify a smokeless gun instead!

sabotloader

spaniel

For myself... 200 is my max with a ML, buteven them it is pretty difficult to get a 200 yard in the areas that I hunt.... not may level spots in Idaho... We would be bigger than Texas if they could flatten the state.

Andy, I just do not have the faith in a ML for 300 yard shots - one because of energy and 2 my own abilities.