45 Elite with BH in Strychnine
06-24-2009, 02:17 PM
#1
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
45 Elite with BH in Strychnine
June 24, 5:00am - grabbed the Elite and headed for the gravel piles on Strychnine Creek - needed to beat the heat (although i shouldn't complain after reading Semi's post).
The mission was to fill in the missing velocity information. I wanted to shoot the same loads of BH from the gun and chrono those results to add to the spreadsheet I have been building.
The BH loads did just about as I expected, the were all slower velocities than T7 until you reach the upper volumes. About at the 110 grain mark they started to show they were going to catch up. At the 120 grain load they basically got better than T7-2f and blew T7=3f out of the water...
Here is the completed table, and the table is also updated in the old post...
These loads were all volume loads thrown on site. Again I have suggested before I know my volume measure is always somewhat light vs actual weight.
Then for humor.... it has often been said "give a monkey a gun and enough bullets he will eventually shoot a good group" I think I qualify...
And one last thing to get my flim-flamming in (I already forgot the correct word) I would like to add thse to pics...
Working off the tailgate at Strychnine...
And a look at a Lehigh .40/185 grain in a MMP sabot....
The mission was to fill in the missing velocity information. I wanted to shoot the same loads of BH from the gun and chrono those results to add to the spreadsheet I have been building.
The BH loads did just about as I expected, the were all slower velocities than T7 until you reach the upper volumes. About at the 110 grain mark they started to show they were going to catch up. At the 120 grain load they basically got better than T7-2f and blew T7=3f out of the water...
Here is the completed table, and the table is also updated in the old post...
These loads were all volume loads thrown on site. Again I have suggested before I know my volume measure is always somewhat light vs actual weight.
Then for humor.... it has often been said "give a monkey a gun and enough bullets he will eventually shoot a good group" I think I qualify...
And one last thing to get my flim-flamming in (I already forgot the correct word) I would like to add thse to pics...
Working off the tailgate at Strychnine...
And a look at a Lehigh .40/185 grain in a MMP sabot....
06-24-2009, 04:38 PM
#4
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: 45 Elite with BH in Strychnine
cayugad
Bh is the real deal.... I love everything about it but the cost.... just can not justify that potion of it, altough I really do wish all of you guys would convert to it full time so that old man Hodg would lower the price on T7...
The only two negatives other than price, is it heats the barrel real rapidly just like any other smokeless and you gotta keep the breech plug channel open - which really are minor things....
At least i am done with that experimenting and can get down to the really fine tuning.
Think I am going to start off with the 45 for deer season - i was think the Triumph - but eveytime I have my mind made Tom ends up changing it for me... Cant wait for some snow....
Bh is the real deal.... I love everything about it but the cost.... just can not justify that potion of it, altough I really do wish all of you guys would convert to it full time so that old man Hodg would lower the price on T7...
The only two negatives other than price, is it heats the barrel real rapidly just like any other smokeless and you gotta keep the breech plug channel open - which really are minor things....
At least i am done with that experimenting and can get down to the really fine tuning.
Think I am going to start off with the 45 for deer season - i was think the Triumph - but eveytime I have my mind made Tom ends up changing it for me... Cant wait for some snow....
06-24-2009, 04:43 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: 45 Elite with BH in Strychnine
jaybez101099
Really sharp eye there jb... I could you use u for an animal scout with that good vision...
Ya, I took it along to do something while I waited for the barrel to cool - otherwise I would just keep shooting.... even shot it throught the chrono... 1032 - 1040 - 1038 - yep you are right bored.... I hate waiting.... that's why i can not fish...
Doing some plinking with 22 revolver? I see it in the pic.
Ya, I took it along to do something while I waited for the barrel to cool - otherwise I would just keep shooting.... even shot it throught the chrono... 1032 - 1040 - 1038 - yep you are right bored.... I hate waiting.... that's why i can not fish...
06-24-2009, 05:44 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,917
RE: 45 Elite with BH in Strychnine
The good poop just keeps on coming. Thanks Sabotloader.
Several things about your results really intrigue me.
The fact that BH doesn't really take over the velocity lead until you hit 130 grains was a real surprise. I had the impression that BH had the velocity edge over T7 throughout the load range.Even when it doestake over thelead, it'snot by all that much. I wonder how that chart would look for a .50 caliber with 300 grain bullets.
Also, the rather small velocity edge T7 FFFG had over FFG at lower load levels was surprising. Then, on top of that,FFG ends up coming out on top ofFFFG with higher volume loads. That's an eye opener. Why does that happen? Internal ballisticsand women mystify me.
Several things about your results really intrigue me.
The fact that BH doesn't really take over the velocity lead until you hit 130 grains was a real surprise. I had the impression that BH had the velocity edge over T7 throughout the load range.Even when it doestake over thelead, it'snot by all that much. I wonder how that chart would look for a .50 caliber with 300 grain bullets.
Also, the rather small velocity edge T7 FFFG had over FFG at lower load levels was surprising. Then, on top of that,FFG ends up coming out on top ofFFFG with higher volume loads. That's an eye opener. Why does that happen? Internal ballisticsand women mystify me.
06-24-2009, 05:52 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
RE: 45 Elite with BH in Strychnine
ORIGINAL: sabotloader
but eveytime I have my mind made Tom ends up changing it for me..
but eveytime I have my mind made Tom ends up changing it for me..
BTW- That's some great shooting and a very good report. I know it takes alot of work to supply that information.
Did you shoot any of Cayugads Bronze Beauties today?
06-24-2009, 06:50 PM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: 45 Elite with BH in Strychnine
Semi
As soon as you start shooting the heavier projectiles 250 grains and the BH and T7-3f trend reverses. Even then it really never develops a whole more than t7-3f.
Here is excerpt from Toby's testing...
All due to the light bullet... doesn't take much to move the 200 grain bullet and when it does it doesn't much to keep it going - then it is out the barrel... I relate back to the .490/170 grain round ball and with 60 grains of T7-3f I am running that out the barrel @ 1700 fps...
I really wish I had the real exact explanation... One of the reason I reshot the 120 and 130 grain loads of T7 was to verify what the numbers said yesterday and it came out the same T7-3f goes in the tank with a 200 grain bullet and anything over 110.. Remember t7-3f goes boom in a hurry T7-2f goes booom and BH goes boooom.
As soon as you start shooting the heavier projectiles 250 grains and the BH and T7-3f trend reverses. Even then it really never develops a whole more than t7-3f.
Here is excerpt from Toby's testing...
Shooting last fall with my favorite .50 caliber Knight DISC Extreme revealed that with a 100-grain volume- measured charge of Pyrodex "RS Select", the powder would get a saboted 260-grain Harvester Muzzleloading "Scoprion PT Gold" out of the muzzle (26" barrel) at 1,656 f.p.s. - which is about the same as when shooting the same amount of FFFg black powder. The same rifle and bullet gave 1,944 f.p.s. with a 100-grain volume-measured charge of FFFg Triple Seven...and 1,968 f.p.s. with the same volume-measured amount of Blackhorn 209. In comparison, the Blackhorn 209 load generates 2,236 f.p.e., while the Triple Seven load is good for 2,179 f.p.e.
Upping the powder charge to 110 grains of each powder pushes the Triple Seven velocity to 2,018 f.p.s. (with 2,353 f.p.e.) and the Blackhorn 209 velocity to 2,039 f.p.s. (with 2,400 f.p.e.). Note: These are all volume-measured charges. By actual weight, a 100-grain volume-measured charge of either Triple Seven or Blackhorn 209 will be right at 70 grains.
Upping the powder charge to 110 grains of each powder pushes the Triple Seven velocity to 2,018 f.p.s. (with 2,353 f.p.e.) and the Blackhorn 209 velocity to 2,039 f.p.s. (with 2,400 f.p.e.). Note: These are all volume-measured charges. By actual weight, a 100-grain volume-measured charge of either Triple Seven or Blackhorn 209 will be right at 70 grains.
Also, the rather small velocity edge T7 FFFG had over FFG at lower load levels was surprising. Then, on top of that, FFG ends up coming out on top of FFFG with higher volume loads. That's an eye opener. Why does that happen?
I really wish I had the real exact explanation... One of the reason I reshot the 120 and 130 grain loads of T7 was to verify what the numbers said yesterday and it came out the same T7-3f goes in the tank with a 200 grain bullet and anything over 110.. Remember t7-3f goes boom in a hurry T7-2f goes booom and BH goes boooom.
06-24-2009, 08:38 PM
#10
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: 45 Elite with BH in Strychnine
Lee
Primers might make some difference but not enough to make a big difference. The Cheddite is just behing the Federal 209A in strength but it a bit cleaner and has a copper battery cup which I prefer for expansion/contraction properties.
I weighed charges with my volume measure several months back just to verify what it was throwing and what they weighed. In all cases it was always a bit light... but never greater than 5 grains by volume -so I expect my 130 grain loads of BH were very close 125 and the 130 grain loads of T7 were probably a couple of grains closer.
I just have no interest in weighing charges - just is not that critical for me and as you see by the numbers the loads are in most cases very close to each other.
Primers might make some difference but not enough to make a big difference. The Cheddite is just behing the Federal 209A in strength but it a bit cleaner and has a copper battery cup which I prefer for expansion/contraction properties.
I weighed charges with my volume measure several months back just to verify what it was throwing and what they weighed. In all cases it was always a bit light... but never greater than 5 grains by volume -so I expect my 130 grain loads of BH were very close 125 and the 130 grain loads of T7 were probably a couple of grains closer.
I just have no interest in weighing charges - just is not that critical for me and as you see by the numbers the loads are in most cases very close to each other.