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-   -   BlackHorn 209 powder (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/296271-blackhorn-209-powder.html)

brushbustin 06-19-2009 04:48 AM
BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Is this stuff what its cracked up to be? Anyone use it? Its gettin awsome reviews and it claims that its non corrosive and that you really don't need to swab between shots and just clean with Hoppes No9 cleaner.So,whats the skinny on it,Im thinking of changing.

Johnmorris 06-19-2009 05:15 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Modern Muzzleloading has a good evaulation of BH209,

Grouse45 06-19-2009 05:25 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
ORIGINAL: brushbustin

Is this stuff what its cracked up to be? Anyone use it? Its gettin awsome reviews and it claims that its non corrosive and that you really don't need to swab between shots and just clean with Hoppes No9 cleaner.So,whats the skinny on it,Im thinking of changing.
So far it's everything it's cracked up to be. The real only complaint i see from people is cost. I would use nothing else but BH209 hunting or shooting. No swabbing between shot's, no horrible smelling smoke, No exspensive primers, no crud ring, etc,etc,etc. You do need to use a hot federal 209A primer and make sure your ML is compatible. What Muzzleloader are you going to use with it?

brushbustin 06-19-2009 05:28 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
A CVA Kodiak Magnum.It takes the 209 primers. I heard that you need to use Shotgun primers. Will I have to do anything to my gun to get it to accept the muzzleloading shotgun primers?

UncleNorby 06-19-2009 06:10 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
209 primers are shotgun primers. Some are made specifically for muzzleloading, but they are all the same size.

srwshooter 06-19-2009 06:36 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
i'm shooting 100grns of bh209 in my triumph with the 295 powerbelt hp and win 209 primers. very clean,no buildup,1 1/2in grps at 100yds.

i have read on other sites that it seems more corrosive than advertised. rust forms fairly soon if not cleaned. i haven't had that problem but ,my barrel has been treated with ULTRA BORE COAT. that should keep it from rusting.

lemoyne 06-19-2009 06:45 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
It is every thing that's claimed. Non-corrosive does not mean that it protects the bore only that it does not cause a problem you still need to oil the bore occasionally, and clean and put a good oil or preservative on for storage. Lee

SWThomas 06-19-2009 07:22 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
It's all I shoot. Very powerful and very clean. You can use any normal 209 primer. Contrary to what Grouse said, you don't have to use a Federal 209A primer. Yes, they work just fine but so do Remington STS, CCI, and Winchester. He just likes Federal. Just stay away from the "Special" 209 primers like 777 and Remington Kleen-Bore.

Grouse45 06-19-2009 08:09 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
ORIGINAL: SWThomas
Contrary to what Grouse said, you don't have to use a Federal 209A primer. Yes, they work just fine but so do Remington STS, CCI, and Winchester. He just likes Federal.
SWThomas, i hate Federal Primers with a capital H. My favorite primer is a standard CCI by far. The reason i use Federals with BH209 is because it's the only primer in all temps that has not failed. When i walk into the woods, it's with stuff that has been tested and proven to work in all conditions.

The Reminton STS and the standard CCI (You weren't specific)failed in cold temps in T/C'S and Knights. I did not test the CCI-M this past winter. My findings are based on hundreds of shot's from temps in the range of -14degrees to 70degrees.

Please dont assume at other peoples cost.

brushbustin 06-19-2009 08:12 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
I hunt east tn and during our ML season it is still in the 60's for highs,but usually drops down cold enough to frost by that time of year.I think i'll try to get the hottest burning primer I can get.But I am definatly going to change powder.

SWThomas 06-19-2009 08:29 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
ORIGINAL: Grouse45

SWThomas, i hate Federal Primers with a capital H. My favorite primer is a standard CCI by far. The reason i use Federals with BH209 is because it's the only primer in all temps that has not failed. When i walk into the woods, it's with stuff that has been tested and proven to work in all conditions.

The Reminton STS and the standard CCI (You weren't specific)failed in cold temps in T/C'S and Knights. I did not test the CCI-M this past winter. My findings are based on hundreds of shot's from temps in the range of -14degrees to 70degrees.

Please dont assume at other peoples cost.
You must be doing something wrong. Were these failures out of your Triumph? The reason I ask is because I have had absolutely no issues in any weather using Remington STS or CCI 209M out of my rifle with Speed Breech XT. I could only assume the regularSpeed Breech on the Triumph is just as sealed as theXT on the Endeavor. If the failures occuredwith a Knight, could it have been to the less sealed breech plug design causing some of the ignition to excape???

I really don't care much for Federal primers either. They are by far the dirtiest primers I have used.

lemoyne 06-19-2009 09:33 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
I am interested in this primer conversation; I just bought several thousand STS and I check them out for a number of things including a freezer test and grouping at different temperatures. I did not show and problem yet, I am just switching from Win. 209 to STS because the Win. 209 carbons up the breach plug in fewer shots. I hope its not a mistake as I hunt a number of states and some times hunt in below "0" weather. Of course I grew up where it some times got down to 20 below for long periods and I know to strip a gun of all oil and grease in that kind of weather. Lee

Grouse45 06-19-2009 10:15 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Lee,
The STS was very inconsistent with ignition in the Triumph, and the Omega. It was a little better in the Knight but not much. I spent 5 hours at the range and the warmest was 6 degrees and the coldest was like -14degrees. A CCIM or a Federal is all i would take hunting in very cold conditions. There is no reason not to use the hottest most reliable primer you can buy. They all cost pretty much the same. This was a test done on HP Muzzleloading.

Winchester 209ML ........................221 f.p.s.
[/align]
[/align]Winchester 209 Triple Seven ML.....244 f.p.s.
[/align]
[/align]Remington 209 Kleanbore ML ........318 f.p.s.
[/align]
[/align]Std. Winchester No. 209A ..............336 f.p.s.
[/align]
[/align]Std. Remington No. 209 .................341 f.p.s.
[/align]
[/align]Cheddite No. 209 ...........................347 f.p.s.
[/align]
[/align]Federal No. 209A ...........................381 f.p.s.
[/align]
[/align]

Powerfisher 06-19-2009 11:12 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
I have gone through two 10oz containers and I love it. It is pricy though so I am now using it for Hunting only and not paper punching. Dont get fooled by the "No Swabbing" like I did. You will need to swab every 10 or so shots. Also, fouling does build up in the flash hole in the breech plug so you will need to keep the flash hole clear. I just poke a paper clip through the hole to keep it clear, every 10 shots or so. I dont wait for a hang fire before I clean it. Its the 209 primer that fouls the flash hole, not the BH209. If it was more affordable, that is all I would use in my in-line ML. Clean with Hoppes and lightly oil. I shoot 290gr Barnes TMZs. It was mentioned that the BH209 works better with heavier bullets. I was shooting 250gr TMZs but have gone up to the 290gr. I agree, the 290s have more penitration and buck the wind better and, tighter grouping. I like it. Just wish it wasnt so expencive.

lemoyne 06-19-2009 06:38 PM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Powerfisher
What brought you to the conclusion that you needed to swab? I have shot for two days in a row to see if if made any differance and it seem to me to load just as well and maintain trhe same level of accuracy. I did clean the carbon out of the breach plug about every 12 shots, Lee

dead on 06-20-2009 04:49 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
I am shooting a disc elite and want to try BH209. I understand from some folks that I need a conversion kit and a new breech plug.but havent been able to confirm or find said items. any help?

Grouse45 06-20-2009 05:19 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
ORIGINAL: dead on

I am shooting a disc elite and want to try BH209. I understand from some folks that I need a conversion kit and a new breech plug.but havent been able to confirm or find said items. any help?
You just need the Concave breech plug that uses the red plastic jackets.

dead on 06-20-2009 05:32 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Grouse45, I need to go back to the original breech plug and not the domed one, correct?

Powerfisher 06-20-2009 07:20 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
ORIGINAL: lemoyne

Powerfisher
What brought you to the conclusion that you needed to swab? I have shot for two days in a row to see if if made any differance and it seem to me to load just as well and maintain trhe same level of accuracy. I did clean the carbon out of the breach plug about every 12 shots, Lee
It was veryhard to seat a TMZ after ten shots or so. The bore on my Omega is tight as it is and even with swabbing its goes down pretty hard. I have tried the Harvester Crushed Rib, Knightsabots (black and green), SST sabots and S/W sabots. They do go down a bit easier but then the accuracy goes to crap. With the barnes, I have found the the sabots that come with the barnes give me the best results but I almost have to stand on them to get them down. Not a bad thing, just after 10 or so shots with the BH209 and seating a TMZ is nearly impossible. Just my own personal experience.Nothing I have tried so far has groups like the sabot that comes with the TMZ. They shoot better than S/Ws and SSTs. I have been reading my sabots and you can really see a difference.

srwshooter 06-20-2009 08:15 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
ORIGINAL: Grouse45

ORIGINAL: SWThomas
Contrary to what Grouse said, you don't have to use a Federal 209A primer. Yes, they work just fine but so do Remington STS, CCI, and Winchester. He just likes Federal.
SWThomas, i hate Federal Primers with a capital H. My favorite primer is a standard CCI by far. The reason i use Federals with BH209 is because it's the only primer in all temps that has not failed. When i walk into the woods, it's with stuff that has been tested and proven to work in all conditions.

The Reminton STS and the standard CCI (You weren't specific)failed in cold temps in T/C'S and Knights. I did not test the CCI-M this past winter. My findings are based on hundreds of shot's from temps in the range of -14degrees to 70degrees.

Please dont assume at other peoples cost.

i'd have to agree on hating federal primers,i stopped buying anything federal makes back in the 80's after there rifle primers cost me 2 of the biggest whitetails i ever seen,2 missfires in 2 different calibers in 2 yrs. and that was with factory ammo. i never saw one of the bucks again,but the other was killed a few days later,13pt,26in spread.

SWThomas 06-20-2009 08:35 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 

ORIGINAL: Powerfisher

ORIGINAL: lemoyne

Powerfisher
What brought you to the conclusion that you needed to swab? I have shot for two days in a row to see if if made any differance and it seem to me to load just as well and maintain trhe same level of accuracy. I did clean the carbon out of the breach plug about every 12 shots, Lee
It was very hard to seat a TMZ after ten shots or so. The bore on my Omega is tight as it is and even with swabbing its goes down pretty hard. I have tried the Harvester Crushed Rib, Knight sabots (black and green), SST sabots and S/W sabots. They do go down a bit easier but then the accuracy goes to crap. With the barnes, I have found the the sabots that come with the barnes give me the best results but I almost have to stand on them to get them down. Not a bad thing, just after 10 or so shots with the BH209 and seating a TMZ is nearly impossible. Just my own personal experience. Nothing I have tried so far has groups like the sabot that comes with the TMZ. They shoot better than S/Ws and SSTs. I have been reading my sabots and you can really see a difference.
Your accuracy probably went to crap because the TMZ is a boattail bullet and needs a specific sabot designed for boattail bullets. That's more than likely why the supplied sabot shoots the best.

Grouse45 06-20-2009 08:42 AM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
ORIGINAL: dead on

Grouse45, I need to go back to the original breech plug and not the domed one, correct?
That's correct.

Powerfisher 06-20-2009 01:02 PM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
I never thought about that. Some of the bullets didnt even hit the paper and one had a bad cant to it. Looks like it wentthrough sideways. Thanks. Do you think my cast bullets have a simular problem? I cant keep a group at 100yds to save my life. 50yds andim on paper but nothing to brag about.I have tried all the sabots I mentioned earlier. I really dont want to buy spendy bullets like S/Ws or SSTs for paper punching, I would much rather cast my own. Also, do you think instead of a 250gr I should cast 300gr? I will be using the 290gr TMZ for hunting with a BH209 load of 110grains.

lemoyne 06-20-2009 02:25 PM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Powerfisher
Normally if you size your bullets so they are all the same, and keep your velocity down to about 1600fps they will shot as good as anything else. Lee

Powerfisher 06-20-2009 03:01 PM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Ummm, size my bullets? I thought I can shoot them right out of the cast. My cast is a aluminum Lee 250gr ML cast. I thought I read that sizeing wasnt necessary. I recon I better read the directions again. I know you have to size bullets for reloading but for BP too? It seems like I have a few factors in this equation. Great, now I have to purge more information in my memory so I can absorb more about MLing. Well, there goes my wedding anniversary date, and my yearly doctor visit.....that ones not so bad, yearlys are.......uncomfortable anyhow. [:@]

sjsfire 06-20-2009 03:29 PM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
BH209 shot OK in my CVA Wolf but I can't use it in my KRB7 which is really the reason I bought the powder in the first place.

lemoyne 06-20-2009 05:10 PM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Powerfisher
I shot them in some competition for a while and found that sized and weight do make a difference. If you don't size them and you don't control the temperature real well there will be a difference in the pressure the bullet put on the sabot and there for the resistance of the sabot will change from load to load the powder will burn at a different speed and pressure and the poi will wander some. Lee
That changes the whip of the barrel to.

Spitpatch 06-20-2009 05:32 PM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Has anyone tried to use CCI 209M primers?

lemoyne 06-20-2009 06:10 PM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Spitpatch
Most of us have at one time or an other. In some guns the hotter primers work better, and in some the standard ones work better. If I ever have a misfire or a hang fire the first thing I will do is make sure the fire channel is clear if it is then I will start thinking about if there was grease or oil on the hammer or firing pin if its cold, I used to live in northern IL and hunt in WI andCO and Wyoming and I learned to degrease before I loaded to hunt. Lee

Grouse45 06-20-2009 06:41 PM
RE: BlackHorn 209 powder
 
Lee, Not really a good idea to use grease and oil in cold temps. I found out the hard way about 15 years ago.;)


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