The so called Flyer.
 

I saw on another thread about Flyers from a Muzzleloader. I didn’t want to get that thread off track so I started a new one. Flyers are a statement often used in Muzzleloading . I would like to address what I have found out about the so called flyer.
What causes a flyer?
1-Poor/inconsistent bullet sabot fit to the bore.
2-Heat
3-Shooter error.

Let me start with no#1- If your loading pressure or sabot diameter is not consistent it will cause a flyer. Example: If you shoot two shot’s and those bullets are fairly tight loading and all of a sudden the third bullet and sabot fall down the barrel. That will create a flyer. I don’t hunt with that load or do I shoot that at a target. I basically shoot that bullet out and reload. I sure don’t want to have a flyer while hunting or developing a good load. I have really found this more so with MMP sabots then Harvester sabots. Harvester sabots imo have better plastic or polymer to with stand the extra heat at the range and in warmer tempatures.

No#2- Heat. With Muzzleloaders the heat really varies with the loads you are shooting. 100grns of 777/BH209 doesn’t heat your barrel up as fast or take as long to cool off as shooting 120grns. But if you shoot to much of either load with out proper cooling you will get flyers. The sabots obviously get soft in the barrel. Which leads to inconsistent bullet to sabot to bore fit. Usually two bullets real close and the third an inch or two or three away.

No#3- Shooter error. I think a lot of us like to blame the sabot or the powder with the so called flyer when it’s really us who make the mistake. I’m far from a shooter. I’m way more a hunter then a shooter. Getting hooked up with Lehigh mainly has created me to shoot a lot more then normal. I know when I have a flyer before I ever see the target. I know when I pulled the shot or took a shot that just wasn’t comfortable when I took it. You can’t take that shot back in a hunting situation. That I believe is what a lot of people call a flyer. Here it has nothing to do with the bullets, sabot,Gun or anything.

The point I’m getting at is I don’t get flyers unless I do something wrong. Shoot to fast and barrel heats up. Flinch or pull the shot. Poor sabot or bullet and don’t shoot it out or unload before shooting it at game or target. This is what I have found over the years and I hope it might help a few of you out in your situation.

RE: The so called Flyer.
 

Grouse45

There is not much doubt in my mind that I am the cause of 99% of what I will call 'my flyers'. And most often it is because i am shooting to fast, I know that but i do it anyway - no patience at all.

But then again, while hunting I really do not have that problem. + I read an interesting thought the on another thread that really applies to me, I am a hunter, not a target master, I can hit a softball at a 100 yards all day almost everyday - shooting fast or shooting slow, well in my case it is a clay pigeon. I even plan for that event in my sighting in... I use a gimmick called 'point blank range'

Flyers... I hate em - they stink - and I get upset at em.... but I know I am going to get them now and then because I am not a perfectionist. dang me!

RE: The so called Flyer.
 

Yes... I've experienced the easy loading sabot too... and you just know it's not going to hit in the group, but you shoot it anyway. Guys are talking about "indexing" the sabot when loading.. think that might help with this problem ?

But the main reason for my flyers is my shooting technique. I have to keep reminding myself to relax and be surprised bythe shot going off. Even with a good trigger, I fall into the trap ofanticipating the trigger release.

SometimesI get too relaxedand neglect to grip the rifle.... thenget banged by the scope.:D After that, I might as well pack it up and go home, because I'll flinch from then on.

RE: The so called Flyer.
 

rt_con
Since I switched to mostly harvester sabots and indexing carefully I have had very few unexplainable fliers. That is not to say I don't throw one once in a while. To me the difference between a flier and a thrown shot is I know what caused the thrown shot I may never know what caused the flier.
On indexing the sabot, stop and think about it. The rifling and the sabot are both symmetrical the gap between the petals is big enough to take a rifling if only 4 rifling's are pressing against the bullet it will have less pressure holding it in place so when the powder starts to burn it will moves easier and sooner different powder burn different pressure = some difference in the POI.
Now I realize this is just my opinion and each of us may have a different one; I wish we could all get together see just what ideas would prove themselves on some targets.
Lee

RE: The so called Flyer.
 

That's a good topic Grouse! Thanks for posting that and offering some insight into why some of us experience issues from time to time. I know I for one shoot too fast. And that's something I need to work on. Quality over quantity.

RE: The so called Flyer.
 

I think you've got it about right Grouse. And I agree with Lee on both points- I find Harvester sabots more consistent, and I've become a believer in indexing. With respect to loading pressure, I've recently become a real fan of having an adjustablestop collar on the loading rod. Set itupon loading the first bullet andevery other bullet will beloaded to the same point with the same pressure on the charge.

As far as shooter error goes, that's a whole can of worms in itself. Any number of things can bite you on the butt - trigger control, sight picture, follow through, and FLINCH are some.The one I find more likely to screw up mygroups than anything elseis my grip on the gun. I find it awfully difficult to maintain the same hold on the gun through a five-shot string. All you have to do is put a death grip on the gun for one shot and you are guaranteed that shot will be out of group.

RE: The so called Flyer.
 

You are exactly right. I was looking at some pictures and ran across a Pig i shot with my Encore. It really reminds me how hold sensitive it was on a bench. The Triumph and theNULAare the same way. These three Muzzleloaders require a firm consistent hold. Not a death grip like you mentioned.





Re: The so called flyer.

RE: The so called Flyer.
 

Normally when I see a flier, if I know the rifle was loaded consistently I blame myself. Now there have been times I loaded a rifle, and as soon as I pushed that projectile down the bore of the rifle... I knew something was wrong. And have seen fliers then.

Another thing I noticed that cause fliers are sudden environmental factors.Sun, Wind, Rain, bugs, etc.. How many times have you been ready to shoot, and the wind picks up or changes directions. At long ranges this can cause a shot to float out of the group. Or the sun pops out from behind clouds and its suddenly very bright out. Now the sight picture has changed over the sights or through the scope..

But normally.. its my fault. [&o]

RE: The so called Flyer.
 

cayugad

Exactly! I am the biggest varible there is when it comes to shooting a ML @ paper....

RE: The so called Flyer.
 

Although I agree with a lot of the comment on this post - There is a time when, even though everything is done right, you will get a flyer. Be it the bullet or some other item.
I've see this shooting competitively back in the 80s and shooting along side a multi-time NRA national champion. You will do everything correctly and your shot will careen off 'center'.
And, Like Cayugad said, I usually know the second I start a bullet down that something is amiss. Either too tight, too loose or whatever. And even then, the shot may be right on or it may 'fly'. And I don't think it 2 wrongs making a right.